Connecting mouse and keyboard on POi Zero

Hello Rick,

HD>> The low price of the Pi Zero flows away, because of the costs of all the HD>> conversion cables to connect it to the outside world, HD>> i.e. micro HDMI to HDMI, micro USB2 to/from normal USB2A, HD>> USB2-RJ45 dongle etc. HD>> And then you still have less memory and less speed compaired to a Pi 3B.

RC> That's true of the rPi anyway as the cost of the keyboard, mouse, RC> monitor and even a decent power supply ends up being significantly pricey RC> compared to the rPi itself.

Yes, that's true, but that is not what I wanted to tell. I was comparing the costs of the Pi Zero and conversion cables to the regular Pi 1B, so to connect the same I/O cables (i.e. HDMI, USB2 and RJ45 EtherNet) as I would use on a normal Pi. So I can change a Pi 1B for a Zero in one go. Then I need at least these three conversion cables.

RC> The zero doesn't need a microHDMI to HDMI converter, just have a RC> suitable cable.

I already have two normal HDMI to HDMI, and two HDMI to DVI-D cables. So for a Pi Zero I only need a Micro HDMI-male to normal HDMI-Female, you see? With that short converters I can use the normal cables. Or should I also buy a micro-HDMi to normal HDMI-male for the Pi Zero? and a Micro-HDMI to DVI-D one, that's also double ;-( So one simple short micro HDMI tot HDMI female will do right. Then I can choose to use the HDMI to HDMI cable, or the HDMI to DVI-D version incombination with that converter cable.

Of course I also have a normal HDMI to VGA converter for use at VGA monitors at computerclubs etc. Then I do not need to carry a monitor with me.

RC> Everything I have is micro USB using a standard cable unless it's a RC> keyboard or mouse. You can use the zero headless just as well as anything.

I know, but I never use computers headless. Second, I do not have a smarth phone, so no micro usb needed ;-). The only micro USB I need are for the Pi's, and my Garmin 2595LMT autoroutenavigator.

RC> I guess costing a PC kinda blows the budget if you want to count that.

Yes, but in reality you have to spend that to get a working combination.

Here people need inland ECDIS on their ships, and I made a solution with a Pi

3B and sell a complete configured microSDcard to them. Then they want to know what to buy else to get a complete system. So I made a complete description of the materials needed to get a full stand alone working ECDIS Pi system. If you count everything, a laptop costs more.

RC> What is the RJ-45 for? You mean an Ethernet USB converter?

Yes, is a simply Emiment EM1010 USB2 to RJ45 10/100bT EtherNet converter.

RC> You can always develop you app on a regular rPi then use the zero in the RC> end device.

Yes, I know. I have 5 Pi's; 2 x 1B, 1B+, 2B and 3B, but no Zero. The Pi's 1B and 1B+ are running RISC OS, and the 2B and 3B are running Raspbian and Ubuntu Linux. On the raspbian version with help I have compiled and installed OpenCPN 4.6.1 with OpenSeaMap and S57 charts for Inland ECDIS as asked by European law. For the data transfer a FTDI USB2A to RS232c cable is needed between the Class A inland AIS-transponder and the Pi or laptop computer. We also find out a cheap 12 or 24 Vdc= to 5 Vdc= converter for powering the Pi

3B. It is silly to first convert the ship's dc to normal power 230 Vac~ 50 Hz, and then convert that back to +5 Vdc=/2.5 Adc= for the Pi 3B.

Now I am thinking to set up a Pi as a FidoNet mailer as a plan C. The amount of kilo Watts will dramatically drop, compared to this current FidoNet node on a 80486 pc with DOS 5 and an analoge V34 POTS modem. First I have to create (buy or build) an USB HDD, because when used intensively, a micro SDcard will soon die. Second I need to know which Linux software I can use? For RISC OS, I could use !ROSBink and have to find out what other software package as a tosser, scanner and mail-editor. I have a good FidoNet Point package !WimpLink that can be combined with !ROSBink, but I can not use that as a FidoNet Node. The other disadvantage is, that I then have to move mailpackets between software programs and also have to do some manual setup of FLO-files etc. for transferring every day. So I think the more recent Linux software will be a better choice for automatically importing and exporting FidoNet messages with less work? There is much to find out and learn, but my physical energy is very limited. So it is a slow proces, and other things in real life have higher priorities.

Henri.

Hello Dave,

HD>> The low price of the Pi Zero flows away, because of the costs of all the HD>> conversion cables to connect it to the outside world, HD>> i.e. micro HDMI to HDMI, micro USB2 to/from normal USB2A, USB2-RJ45 HD>> dongle etc.

DL> What on earth do you want all that for?

To exchange a normal Pi for the Pi Zero with the same standard cables. So you need conversion cables for the small connectors to the normal connectors. That's were I put the finger on.

DL> All you need is an ENC20J60 10BaseT ethernet board (approx GBP5.00) DL> a PSU and a handful of jumper wires.

I donot know the ENC20J60 10bT EtherNet board. And why jumper wires? They also costs money, or did you get that free? Besides that, the Eminent EM1010 USB2A to/from RJ45 10/100bT EtherNet adapter has also the high speeds of 100 mBit, instead of the ENC20J60. The EM1010 costs Euro 20. It worked direct on a Pi Zero of a friend of mine. Of course the 4 port USB2 hub was needed too.

HD>> And then you still have less memory and less speed compaired to a Pi 3B.

DL> True but a zero is 1/10th (ish) the cost

A Pi 2B costs Euro 35 here, and a Pi Zero Euro 6. A Pi 3B costs Euro 38 here, and a Pi Zero W Euro 11, that is not 1/10th ! The price of at least the microHDMI to normal HDMI female, and from micro USB OTG to normal USB2A female together costs more than the difference in price between the normal Pi 2B and the Pi Zero, or between the Pi 3B and the Pi Zero W. For the Zero without WiFi, you also need a simple USB2 to RJ45 10/100bT EtherNet adapter, i.e. the Eminent EM1010 for instance, Euro 20. That's what I wanted to show to all of you. Simple counting he?, as learned at school ;-). And besides that, the CPU performance is also much different between a Pi Zero (W) and the 2B / 3B you have to count and consider too. The Pi Zero has 512 MB, and the Pi 2B and 3B both 1 GB, a big difference!

The power supply unit, keyboard and mouse does not matter in this case, as they are the same for both a normal Pi 3B and a Pi Zero W, so no different prices here. It are the extra conversion cables needed that make it more expensive. That's my point I want to make all the time. So I think a Pi Zero or Zero W is a weak approach, compared to a normal Pi. "Penny wise and Pound foolisch" comes to mind ;-). But not every one wants to see that, I have remarked here, that's a pity. For a less asking stand alone usage, it could be an idea.

Henri.

Just remember, after burning an SD-card with a fresh Raspbian image but before ejecting it, to:

1. enable SSH access by creating a file "ssh" (I think "ssh.txt" also works) on the card. On Windows or macOS, the FAT32 formatted /boot partition of the card will be the only partition mounted and this is where you create the file. The other partition is ext4 and normally unreadable on Win/Mac. So don't create a(nother) "boot" subdirectory.
2. preconfigure access to your 2.4 GHz WPA/WPA2 wifi network by creating a "wpa_supplicant.conf" file on that same partition, with your network credentials:

ctrl_interface=DIR=/var/run/wpa_supplicant GROUP=netdev update_config=1 country=XY network={ ssid="WifiName" psk="WifiPassword" }

The first two lines I simply copied, not sure if they're essential. Use your actual two-letter country code, like UK or US. You can add more networks, just add another "network={...}" configuration; they will be tried in order of appearance in the file. Instead of the clear-text password you can also use the 64-char hex number output of "wpa_passphrase WifiName" (it will ask for the password). When first booting, the .conf file will be removed from the unsecure /boot partition and saved in /etc/wpa_supplicant/ with only root access. (Except, you know, sudo doesn't require a password on standard Raspbian ... so use the wpa_passphrase hash whenever possible.)

the same progression: $5, $10, $35.

RISC OS has no Bluetooth HID support, so the wireless USB dongle you mention is the best bet. I've found the Logitech ones generally good.

Theo

Hello Henri!

21 Jan 18 18:44, you wrote to rickman:

HD> Now I am thinking to set up a Pi as a FidoNet mailer as a plan C. HD> The amount of kilo Watts will dramatically drop, compared to this current HD> FidoNet node on a 80486 pc with DOS 5 and an analoge V34 POTS modem. HD> First I have to create (buy or build) an USB HDD, because when used HD> intensively, a micro SDcard will soon die.

What is soon? I have four RPi's running Fido for some years now. They all use the SDcard as storage. The all carry all echo areas my main node offers, wich is far more than what you are connected to. All run headless.

HD> Second I need to know which Linux software I can use?

Node 2:280/5006 Binkd - fidogate as main node hpt - Golded - as directory coupled point system smapinntpd on the same messagebase

Point system1 Binkd - hpt - jammnntpd Point system2 MBSE Point system3 Binkd - hpt - Golded - smapinntpd

In progress Binkd in a Docker container - HPT and Golded are next.

They all run without supervision or manual maintenance.

Kees

Hello Dave!

22 Jan 18 14:16, you wrote to me:

DL> >>> when used intensively, a micro SDcard will soon die. >> >> What is soon?

DL> About 6 weeks for an micro SD card or USB memory stick with a Pi DL> being used as a timelapse camera taking a full HD image every 30

.....

DL> room for the wear leveling to work with, unlike a card with a fair DL> bit of free space.

O.K. but that is really heavy use. I think I had one SDcard die on me with Domoticz running for over a year.

The fidonet nodes have short activities about ever 10 minits and messages are all small and text base. If you use a 32 or 64Gb card, it lasts a long time.

Kees

Fair enough, I always run headless and tend towards the embedded use. My on going project is a controler for the thermal store, with solar, wood burner and oil boiler inputs, with DHW and two CH ouputs. That'll be a Zero, an ENC20J60, nokia LCD display, rotary encoder and at least one solid state relay. All plugged onto a custom mother board apart from the solid state relay(s). It's at bread board stage but keeps evolving, I wasn't going to control the pump for the oil boiler loop but or CH loops but we've just had the oil boiler swapped for a condensing one and getting the return temp down low enough to keep the thing at least a little in condensing mode is proving an issue...

To connect the SPI interface of the ENC20J60 board to the SPI interface on Pi's GPIO header. At least for testing and development, "production" would have something a little better, perhaps just hardwired or as above a mother board.

But not a lot, couple of Euro.

Having the ethernet port run at 1 Gbps, 100 Mbps or 10 Mbps isn't overly relevant on a Pi's USB interface as that is limited to less than 5 Mbps (IIRC). Not that I've seen much faster with the ENC20j60 boards.

ENC20J60 board and jumpers about 10 Euro. Support is built into Raspian, just add the relevant line to /boot/config.txt and away it goes.

My very poor guesstimation... 1/7th would be closer (for non-W).

Never knowingly had a problem with lack of RAM and the only thing that has maxed out the CPU on a Zero or Pi B was the Python number crunching required to animate a 300 LED "neopixel" strip at Christmas. I suspect if I learnt C and ported the Python that wouldn't be an issue.

Not for a project like my thermal store controller. That doesn't need a quad core processor or 1 G byte of RAM, a Zero has ample processing capacity:

10:47:17 up 9 days, 20:44, 1 user, load average: 0.35, 0.30, 0.28

That's a Zero running Pi-Hole, Nginx web server, a python script logging data from five 1-Wire temperature sensors, a 1-Wire thermocouple interface and a 1-Wire 8 port I/O switch, a python script decoding and logging a serial data stream from an Resol controller and another python script that is the evolving control program, that sits reading the some of 1-Wire temp sensors and cycles round various animated screens showing that information whilst watching the the rotary encoder for movement if detected it switches to a "menu mode" to set up various parameters.

--
Cheers 
Dave.

Denominations are not capitalized: euro, dollar, pound.

Henri Derksen wrote on 1/21/2018 1:44 AM:

Ok, but what is the point of this? When I got an rPi I had to buy two HDMI cables, one to connect to the rPi and another to adapt to my DVI monitor. Adapters are a fact of life... or you can buy the right cable in the first place.

You have cables lying around not being used? Mine are all connected to computers. Instead of buying cables you don't need, you should have bought cables you can use like one with a micro-HDMI connector.

What's a "normal" cable? Oh, any cable you already bought that isn't correct for the application you have now?

Buy the cables you need, when you need them.

Virtually everything I have is micro-USB and the laptop computer is the

*ONLY* type A USB device I have.

I don't know what "working combination" means. Why can't I use an rPi for all my computing needs? I was thinking of that the other day. It could be the ultimate Chrome book. Instead of opening multiple browser windows on on computer I could open windows on multiple rPis and connect into them via Ethernet or wifi. At $35 for a model 3 or $5 for a model zero, I could have a *lot* of computing power at my finger tips for very little money compared to a $1000 computer.

Exactly! A LOT more.

You deleted the context so I don't know what the point was.

--

Rick C 

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms, 
on the centerline of totality since 1998

About 6 weeks for an micro SD card or USB memory stick with a Pi being used as a timelapse camera taking a full HD image every 30 seconds, checking the overall level (no point in storing black images during the night), adding a time/date caption, generating a thumbnail and compiling the previous 24 hours into a 2 minute (ish) timelapse movie every 3 hours. The initial photo produced 2880 1 M byte (ish) file writes/day, adding the caption another 2000 to 840 depending on the season. An 8 GB card/stick was pretty full holding about 3 days of still images, the movies and have enough working space. A single day would have about 6 or 7 GB of writes done. With not much elbow room for the wear leveling to work with, unlike a card with a fair bit of free space.

--
Cheers 
Dave.