Why would iOS be safer from spying than a well setup Android phone?

no you don't.

you've been told the answer numerous times and you just don't listen.

I'm tired of your senseless riddles & rumor mongering UFO fears. You don't know the answer; you only know Apple marketing glossy literature.

Facts are all that we ask for here. Not your senseless self-serving fear-mongering idiotic riddles.

I provided facts in the OP. Now it's time to find out the answer from someone who knows how Android works (which isn't me - and it certainly isn't you).

TO ANDROID USERS: Do you know *how* Google can "spy" on us, like the iOS users allude to?

TO IOS USERS: You're welcome to add value - but please don't give us only glossy marketing FUD sans a single verifiable detail.

You tell me. You seem to be the one that's beefing :-) . Cheers, -- tlvp

I did provide all the facts I knew. You provided absolutely nothing of any value (so why do you bother?).

1. I don't log into Google apps:
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2. I turn off location services:
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3. I turn off all Android location access:

- Android Settings:

- Network Location:

- Android IP Service:

- Google Play Services:

- Google Search:

- ES File Explorer:

1. Without a Google Account, it may very well be that the Advertising ID no longer exists; but, just in case, I tap on Google Settings to change it.
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You clearly know even less than I do. So you'll *never* be able to answer the simple question.

You live off of fear inculcated in you by Apple Marketing. Me? I just want the facts.

So I ask the factual question, which, can be summarized as: a. Does not having a Google Play account eliminate the Advertising ID? (Deleting the Google Play account "appears" to remove all vestiges of the Advertising ID from the Android settings - so that "might" be the case that there is no longer an Advertising ID - but that remains to be proven.)

b. Ignoring cross-platform apps such as Google Maps and Google Mail (which exist on iOS also), what Android-specific privacy things can Google possibly latch off of to spy on us while we're using our Android devices that Apple doesn't also do on iOS?

So far, nobody knows of anything.

The Apple Apologists (predictably) bring up nothing whatsoever of factual value (as if they all work for Apple Marketing because they live and breathe fear in everything they do).

Facts don't scare me like they scare them. I'm hoping the Android aficionados will know the facts.

Facts only.

It seems Apple iOS devices have a resettable Identifier for Advertisers (IDFA), which can be rest on iOS devices using: Settings->Privacy->Advertising->Reset Advertising Identifier.

So, in that sense, iOS and Google seems to be similar; although it appears that the Google Advertising ID "may" be easily removable on non-rooted devices simply by deleting your Google Play account (still working on that premise).

Apple iOS devices also have a Unique Device Identifier (UDID).

which apps cannot access and use to identify users.

It seems that Google may have copied Apple in creating the Advertising ID in the first place, as stated in this article:

However, apparently very much unlike the Apple Advertising ID (IDFA), it is well known that Android users have long had the opportunity to opt out of Advertising ID (AdID) based tracking.

Even more unlike the Apple Advertising ID (IDFA), so far, it seems that deleting the Android Google Play account may have also deleted the entire existence of the Advertising ID (AdID).

The first clue is that the entire concept of the Advertising ID instantly disappeared from the Android settings menu when the Google Play account was removed.

Another clue is this developer web page which states that the advertising ID works only when Google Play Services is available:

This article says the Advertising ID came from Google Play Services 4.0, which no longer exists on my phone, which implies no Advertising ID:

This article confirms that the AdID is composed from the Google Play account, which doesn't even exist, so it's probably not possible to generate a valid AdID:

Probably the strongest evidence is in this article, which pretty much says that without Google Play Services (GPS), the advertising ID (AdID) can't be used by applications:

But, Google Play account and Google Play Services aren't the same thing.

Does anyone on the Android side actually know, for sure, that deleting the Google Play account and/or turning off Google Play services disables the generation or use of the Advertising ID?

Facts only.

While I had already limited Google Play Services using App Ops Starter:

To test how the non-rooted Android device handles the lack of both a Google Play account and Google Play Services, I removed or disabled these "apps" from my Android phone using the Android Application Manager:

1. Removing the Google Play Store app:
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1. Disabling the Google Play Services app:
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2. Disabling the Google Services Framework app:
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The result was that my admittedly cleanly organized desktop:

Just got cleaner, in that the Google Play app disappeared:

And, even the "Google Settings" app disappeared!

Two facts: a. Deleting the Google Play account removed all mention of the Advertising ID (AdID) from the Android settings, but the "Google Settings" app icon remained, which had a menu for the Advertising ID.

b. In addition, deleting and disabling the apps above, wiped out the "Google Settings" app, so now there is zero mention of any ApID anywhere in the Android device (that I can find).

One hypothesis for the Android aficionados:

- Have I entirely wiped out the AdID from my non-rooted device? If not - where is it?

The only fact here is, you are talking to yourself. ...and you are answering. There is something disturbing in that.

Facts only - not fear mongering.

I rebooted the phone to see if the removal and disabling of the Google Play Store app and Google Play Services and Google Services Framework would come back, but they seem to have stayed off upon inspection after reboot.

The great news is that I can't find the Advertising ID anywhere on the Android system (this is an unrooted phone - so - to my knowledge - I'm the first one to document this - although I can't be the only one to have thought of something this simple).

While it seems the Advertising ID is now entirely gone from my Android phone, one minor gotcha was that *some* of the Google apps fail to work with the three changes below:

1. Removing the Google Play Store app:
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1. Disabling the Google Play Services app:
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2. Disabling the Google Services Framework app:
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Surprisingly, Google Maps still works but the Google Youtube App fails, by giving the clear message that Google Play needs to be "updated". Luckily, saving a youtube link from Firefox to the deskop completely replaces that pushbutton youtube app, so there's no loss in functionality.

More surprisingly, the *default* SMS app that came with the Samsung Galaxy S3 (yellow and white envelope icon), failed to send messages. This was also easily worked around simply by installing a different SMS app from F-Droid, named QSSMS, which worked fine in back-and-forth test messages to the iOS user who switched from Android Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 a few weeks ago.

I will test this further, but, it seems that everything else is working, but that there is no Advertising ID nor Google Play account nor even Google Play Services running on this unrooted Android phone.

Given that fact, what could Google possibly latch on to in order to invade privacy?

Can the iOS users likewise wipe out the Apple advertising ID altogether?

What's interesting is that you know *absolutely nothing* about this topic, yet, you still post your usual Apple-Marketing-induced fear-driven drivel.

I am adding value to the overall knowledge level. If I'm the only one in this ng capable of adding value - so be it.

For example, it seems that the primitive iOS operating system is far less private than the more advanced Android operating system at this point simply because I've shown it's easy to completely eliminate the advertising id on Android.

Once I confirm that's the case, I'll see if it's possible to completely eliminate the similar iOS Advertising ID; but knowing how limiting iOS is, I suspect I'll have to "just give up" like you guys do all the time on iOS.

Meanwhile, if I happen to know more than the rest of you about how to easily make Android private, then so be it. It's sad, because I know next to nothing about either iOS or Android - but if I happen to know more than anyone here does - that's just a fact.

The great news is that it was trivial to remove the Google Play account, which, I think, in and of itself, is all that's needed.

It was also trivial to removed and/or disable the Google Services applications and Google Framework applications - where the repercussions were extremely minimal - so that's also good news.

1. Some Google apps stopped working (e.g., Youtube).
2. They were easily replaced.
3. One Android system app stopped working (i.e., Messages).
4. Likewise, that was easily replaced.

I'll keep testing and reporting back the results.

I doubt the backward Apple-Marketing-driven iOS users can ever add the slightest bit of value to a technical thread such as this, so, I mostly ask the far more sophisticated Android aficionados if they have similar experiences where all vestiges of the Google phoning home have been so easily eliminated.

Am 03.08.2016 um 08:34 schrieb Aardvarks:

You seem to be unaware of the difference between data shown on a screen and data stored internally in a computer system. The only thing you've proven above is that you don't see this ID anymore in any (user accessible) screen.

But you can't possibly know (at this time, after performing the steps you outlined) whether it's still stored somewhere in the system, nor whether it's still accessible by apps (or Android itself) whenever they choose to do so.

Michael

Am 03.08.2016 um 08:47 schrieb Aardvarks:

How do you know that? Not having it displayed on any screen is by no means the same as it not being there at all.

There are other ways to identify a device, and we told you some weeks ago in another thread. IIRC you never came back on my statements, therefore I won't bring them up again.

'Likewise'? You didn't prove that the ID is actually wiped out.

And as for iOS: I have an easily reachable menu in the Settings app, where I can (and have ;-) ) denied Ad-tracking, and where I can even reset the ADID (by generating a new one).

In which way is that less secure than your way, which definitively is too complex for almost all users?

Michael

Am 02.08.2016 um 21:37 schrieb Aardvarks:

Do you really think it to be a good start of a discussion insulting one of the groups you hope to be participating? Me not...

No you don't, you want your view of the world confirmed. Otherwise you wouldn't have felt the need to insult the group that is most likely to be of a different opinion.

Michael

exactly

I am a scientist.

1. Like any true scientist, I provide my hypothesis that iOs is less private than Android when it comes to being able to easily *eliminate* the advertising ID. And, like any true scientist, I provided numerous references which backed up my claims and which supported the experiment that I devised and published out in the open.

1. Like any true scientist, I provided the exact steps to my *experiment*, which anyone on the planet can reproduce with any similar Android phone (mine is an S3 on Android 4.3).

2. And, like a true scientist, I provided the results and conclusion that the advertising ID was trivially easily completely eliminated from the Android system. Like any true scientist, I know *more* needs to be explored, such as the question of whether the Advertising ID is hidden somehow, and that similar tests need to be performed to see if it is as easy to eliminate the advertising ID on iOS as it was on Android.

This is what scientists do. This is fact.

Now, what do *you* provide?

Words? Tht's it? Just words?

You are not a scientist.

You, and nospam and Savageduck and tlvp, etc., are merely iOS apologists who don't like the fact that it's trivially easy to completely eliminate the advertising ID on Android, while it's probably almost impossible to do the same privacy tweak on iOS.

Heh heh ... you really felt the need to say that? Really?

Even nospam and Savageduck and tlvp didn't feel the need to say that what you have on Apple iOS is the same as what every Android user already has with respect to *resetting* the advertising ID and telling advertisers not to use it.

You probably don't even *understand* what I just wrote - but I'm sure nospam (who, despite his constant baseless lies, actually *does* understand everything that I write).

not a very good one.

all of which have been refuted.

instead of discussing these supposed tests, you start insulting and bashing anyone that doesn't agree.

put simply: you have *no* idea what's going on or how things work.

the first part is more of your bullshit, but for the second part,

I am a scientist.

1. I proposed my hypothesis & my references backing it up.
2. I showed the exact steps of my experiment for anyone to reproduce.
3. I showed the results for anyone to prove wrong.

And what do you provide?

You *saying* there is a super-secret hidden secret advertising ID that is secretly generated outside the well-known mechanisms that the references prove exist, merely means that you're stretching for a conspiracy theory to support your erroneous beliefs.

What are your references? Where is your experiment? Where is your proof?

You may as well tell me the earth is flat.

I often wonder why you Apple people resort to such lies, but I finally figured why you make up *everything* in your self-imposed contrived world that Apple Marketing so safely (says they have) built for you: a. You're scared witless (hoping that Apple Marketing will protect you) b. You only care about style (which Apple Marketing surely provides) c. You accept single-button-mouse solutions (from Apple Marketing)

Fact:

- It's trivially easy to completely eliminate the Advertising ID from an unrooted Android device (my test was on an S3 with Android 4.3).

Hypothesis:

- It's impossible to do the same privacy tweak on unrooted iOS.

I'm a scientist. I'm not afraid of facts. Prove me wrong.

apple and android developer documentation.