Why don't camera reviews cover the data connection to the PC?

I'm sad because I read the camera reviews and now that I've opened the gift, I found out the Casio EXILIM camera uses a proprietary USB cable!

The reviews failed me.

I only found out when I tried to pull some pictures out that all my mini usb and micro usb cables are useless on this Casio camera.

What good are the camera reviews if they miss totally something that is as important as a totally non-standard data interface to the computer???????

I'll never trust dp review ever again. I'm livid at how stupid the camera reviewers are when they can't even tell me that a cable is proprietary.

Not one camera review caught this. Idiots all. I'm so angry at them.

Reply to
Pat Cheney
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That's something that would be nice for them to include in the database of features, but that you should have checked yourself first.

It's like when you buy a car, the manufacturer doesn't list every feature or characteristic, yet some are very important to owners, but unless you check the owners manual or the actual vehicle you'll never know whether or not the vehicle is acceptable to you.

Reply to
SMS

I did check. I checked dpreview and steves's digicam.

How else am I supposed to check?

They said it was "usb" but they never said it was "proprietary USB".

Does anyone know WHY they didn't say that additional word?

Reply to
Pat Cheney

For the same reason that reviews of cell phones don't mention the type of charging connector. The review sites don't understand that it's a feature of concern to some buyers. Actually when I buy a cell phone these days, I won't buy one that uses a proprietary power connector, but you can't find that information out easily without looking at the phone.

It's true that the review sites should mention the connectors on the camera, as well as whether they're standard or proprietary (just like they mention whether it uses AA batteries or a proprietary Li-Ion battery).

In any case, the best thing to do now is to purchase a few of the cables and keep them around. They're only about $6 ("

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") is this the cable?

I remember many years ago suggesting to Byte Magazine that when they do reviews of printers that they include information not just on print quality and speed, but on how well, if at all, the printer could print envelopes. They did respond, but basically blew me off, claiming that there was no need for such information in their review.

Reply to
SMS

You're so right!

I never buy a cell phone without finding out first if it's mini-usb or not. Same with headphones and gps navigation units.

One problem I've found with cellphones is Motorola. For some reason, Motorola USB is "special" USB.

I've found that Motorola chargers work fine with all other phones but Motorola phones don't work well with the other chargers. But I found a solution that works so that a single charger charges all my electronics.

This happened with my Blackberry 8700 two years ago and again with my new Blackberry 9000 this year.

The solution was to buy from a large department store a 550 ma Motorola mini-usb charger and then to turn around a day later and return it. But, in the box I put the brand-new 750ma Blackberry mini-USB charger instead of the Motorola charger.

I would hope EVERYONE would do this. When Motorola gets thousands of Blackberry or Garmin mini-usb chargers, they'll figure out their error.

Luckily, for the past two years, I've had no problems using the Motorola charger in all my portable electronics appliances so it's just the Motorola phone (RAZR) that is the culprit.

Reply to
Pat Cheney

We have two Motorola phones in our family and I have a Blackberry. The Blackberry can be recharge on most any standard mini USB cable from most any of the standard mini USB chargers or car adaptors. This is also including the Motorola charger and Motorola car adaptor.

The Motorola phone can only be recharged with the dedicated Motorola charger. To use a generic charger with the Motorola phone it must be specified for Motorola phones. This also applies to the car adaptors.

If I want to charge the Motorola phone on a PC, I have to have their full program software installed. To recharge the Blackberry I can have their simple stand alone driver installed on any PC. I don't need the complete software package.

What they did with the Motorola product is that the charger's voltage control circuits have to send to the phone an ID data packet to tell the phone that it is allowed to be recharged with that device. The phone will then allow itself to accept the charge current from the charger. In simple words, the charger has to make the phone think it is on a powered USB port and the necessary driver is active for the phone.

Many dealers who sell these generic chargers are not aware of this requirement for the Motorola phone. When buying a generic charger it is important to try it in the store with your phone. You may come home and find that the charger you bought will not work with your Motorola phone.

Personally, I like the Motorola phone. I like the way it sounds and the layout of the menus, and etc. I am very disappointed at the way they designed the charging and accessory part of it.

Because of the driver and charging limitations with the Motorola phones, I am considering to not buy new Motorola phones after these have finished their life span. I will most likely buy Blackberries, or another manufacture's phone to replace them. I found the Blackberry to be very universal and less of a problem for flexibility.

With the Motorola phone I have to be careful that I have the dedicated charger and car adaptor with me when I travel with it. I cannot share the accessories with other manufacture phones that use the same connectors and voltage specifications for recharging and operation.

Making a product very proprietary actually works against the manufacture. Some manufactures think they are protecting their product accessories. But, all they are doing is making the customer unhappy, and he will not come back again. I won't!

Jerry G.

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Reply to
Jerry G.

On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 12:33:36 -0800, Pat Cheney put finger to keyboard and composed:

The difference could be just one resistor:

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- Franc Zabkar

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Reply to
Franc Zabkar

On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 15:59:39 -0800 (PST), "Jerry G." wrote in :

Not so. It's simply a matter of the number of pins in the connector, and the right signals on those pins. My Motorola V3xx charges just fine from my computer with nothing from Motorola installed.

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Very best wishes for the holiday season and for the coming new year,
John
Reply to
John Navas

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 11:14:49 +1100, Franc Zabkar put finger to keyboard and composed:

I also believe that some devices will look for the presence of pullup or pull-down resistors on the Data+ and/or Data- signal pins. In this way the device knows when it is connected to a USB host, in which case it will limit its current draw to 500mA. Otherwise it thinks it is connected to a fast charger, and then it draws whatever current it wants.

- Franc Zabkar

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Reply to
Franc Zabkar

On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 12:33:36 -0800, Pat Cheney wrote in :

This is actually just a matter of the wrong cable / connection.

The problem is that not all Standard-A to Mini-B USB cables are the same

-- there are both 5-connection cables and 4-connection cables, and only proper 5-connector cables will work properly without a Motorola USB driver. Standard USB has only 4 connections. Mini USB has 5 connections, the extra connection being the device ID pin.

--
Very best wishes for the holiday season and for the coming new year,
John
Reply to
John Navas

ot.

But that does not solve the problem of the OP or the first reply.

Reply to
hrhofmann

On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 19:41:06 -0800 (PST), "hr(bob) snipped-for-privacy@att.net" wrote in :

The issue (not really a problem) is essentially the same thing: assuming there's only one possible connector, which is his mistake, not some sort of dishonesty by the manufacturer.

--
Very best wishes for the holiday season and for the coming new year,
John
Reply to
John Navas

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 12:56:05 +1100, Franc Zabkar wrote in :

People, people, enough with the mystery and speculation -- this is part of the USB standard! It's called ID, and is clearly defined. See

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Very best wishes for the holiday season and for the coming new year,
John
Reply to
John Navas

Hi Jerry G. Thank you! You are the voice of reason, experience, and knowledge!

You've solved a problem that caused me a problem in the past!

This explains why I couldn't charge my daughter's Motorola RAZR on a vacation this summer. I thought it was the cable even though I had used the cable on my Blackberry and it worked just fine. I threw away the mini-usb cable thinking it was bad! Now I know it wasn't bad. It was just not the Motorola mini-usb cable!

The referenced URL below also says why. Thank you for pointing this out!

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Pat PS: The solution is to buy a new Motorola cable, and return the brand new Blackberry cable in its place.

RAZR V3 will not charge by simply supplying 5V through USB (it"s possible to use a common USB cable for charging if you are using the Motorola special PC driver software). Motorola uses the pin between Pin #3 and #4 (Pin X) to sense what device is attached to the mini-USB port. Shorting Pin #3 to #2 and #X causes the phone to go into handsfree/carkit mode and the LCD backlight will ignore timeout settings and stay on. Shorting pin X to pin 2 and to pin 4 via R=200KOhm causes the phone to go into charge mode.

MOTORIZR Z6tv - In Order to make your PC charge your phone through a usb cable w/o installing any special drivers or software: Short pins 2 and 3, then put a 200K Ohm resistor between pins X and 4.

- The phone supplies ~2.14Vdc to pin X before anything is plugged into it. It needs to be dropped 1V to approx 1.16Vdc. Putting a 200K Ohm resistor between Pins X and 4 will bring that voltage down to around

1.16Vdc.

- The wall charger has pins 2 and 3 shorted together. Not sure if it's a safe practice shorting the USB DATA lines together on your PC, so do at your own risk. However, it does work on my terminal with out any ill effects. AC adapter Pin Name Direction Description

1 +5 VDC -?- PC USB Pin 1 (+5 VDC). 2 USB Data -?- shorted to pin x in charger cable. 3 USB Data -?- not connected X -?- Shorted to pin 2 + shorted to pin 4 via R=200KOhm in charge cable. (R=165KOhm?) 4 GND -?- PC USB pin 4 (GND). Shorted to pin X via R=200KOhm in charge cable. (R=165KOhm?)

Comment by Darrin A standard Motorola USB charger puts ~1.4vdc onto the x pin of the mini USB plug. A 200k resistor between pin 2 and 4 produces ~1.9vdc on the x pin. This works for Motorola Q (which works from ~1.2vdc to ~1.9vdc), but not for Razr V3m. I had to lower the resistor to 165k. This produces ~1.5vdc and allows the charger to become authorized. Comment by Andre After many trial and error, the working pinout for my RAZR V3C was to short

2 and 3 THEN Short X and Gnd with a 200KOhm resistor. Work good on my unbranded USB car charger and with a PC without any driver installed. Here is a schematic : 1 _____________ +5V ____________ 2 _______, PHONE SIDE 3_______/ USB / Power Supply side X_______/\\/200Kohm /\\__,__ GND ___ 4___________________/
Reply to
Pat Cheney

Hi John, While that may be the problem, the solution, for those of us with both Blackberry and Motorola equipment, is to purchase Motorola cables and return the new Blackberry equipment in its place.

Specifically the Blackberry comes with a 120/240-volt charger; you buy an equivalent Motorola charger; and you return the brand new Blackberry charger in its stead.

Likweise with the new Blackberry mini-USB cable and, if you bought the car adapter, that too.

This works fine because the Blackberry equipment will work just fine with the Motorola cables and chargers and adapters but the Motorola phone won't work with the Blackberry cables and chargers and adapters.

This solves the problem instantly. At any time, I can grab any one of my many Motorola chargers or cables or adapters and charge all my electronics that use the mini-USB standard.

Thanks Jerry G. for solving this problem for us!

Reply to
Pat Cheney

On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 23:18:25 -0800, Pat Cheney wrote in :

Except he's not entirely correct. See my follow-up. You've made the same mistake you made with the camera.

No, it was just not a standard Mini-USB cable. Many cables don't do the ID properly.

Any standard 5-connector cable will do.

That's the standard.

Not correct. Read the standard definition.

--
Very best wishes for the holiday season and for the coming new year,
John
Reply to
John Navas

On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 23:23:11 -0800, Pat Cheney wrote in :

Any _standard_ cable will do.

What he posted was substantially erroneous. You're compounding the problem. Learn first. Then rant.

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Very best wishes for the holiday season and for the coming new year,
John
Reply to
John Navas

Hi John, I'm confused by all the cable pin out information so I won't respond directly but will read and reread the replies to see if I understand.

All I know is that it "seemed" to me that the Motorola cabling worked on both the Motorola and Blackberry equipment (at least that has been my experience).

So, I admit, I might be wrong and this is getting OT anyway but my "solution" seemed to work (which was to replace all my Blackberry cabling with Motorola cabling).

Pat

Reply to
Pat Cheney

I admit I don't understand the cabling at all.

All I ask is, given the information above, is whether the Motorola cables are more standard then than the Blackberry cables?

Is that why the Motorola cabling works with the Blackberry but the Blackberry cabling doesn't work with Motorola equipment?

Pat PS: I'm out of my league on the cabling, I admit.

Reply to
Pat Cheney

So YOUR answer is to be a thief?

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Reply to
Michael A. Terrell

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