Verizon Telephone Ringer ISSUE (land line)

Hi,

I have an intermittent problem with telephone(s) NOT RINGING when someone tries to call. Most of the time, the telephone will ring. Therefore removing all devices from telephone line, then connect one device at a time to find "culprit", is not practical. Note: I removed 3 devices I seldom use from phone line. Ringing voltage increased to 81.VAC (3 devices removed) due other devices loading.

At main input jack, everything disconnected (no loads), ringing voltage was 93 VAC.

I am retired electronic technician. I used my Fluke DMM with "Max/Min" capture feature to log the ringing voltages. Twice, I was able to "capture" the NO RINGING voltages, 34.4VAC and 38VAC.

TEMP SOLUTION:

Since my answer machine is on all the time, and answers on the

4th ring, I told my relatives & friends to hang up if phone rings 5 or more times. Then call again. The odd thing (good thing), when they call back, the phone(s) ring!! So far, every time.

Did anyone else have this issue?

Thank You in advance, John

Reply to
jaugustine
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Been retired after 47 years in the business, but the ring voltage sounds borderline since the max is 105 v. However with the "tweaty birds" in use today don't require anything near that high. There is another number that is very important. The Ringer Equivalence Number must not ex ceded. The REN is usually printed on the unit providing the ring voltage. Finding it on the ringer is a different thing all together. One thing you never want to do is have an oldfashon mechanical ringer these days.

Of course the unit putting out the ring voltage could be a problem under load.

I would look at the ringer in each phone to see what it is and maybe the REN is printed somewhere.

When I started ring voltage came from the central office for any switchboards (Cord) that may be in the building. It was really "HOT" found out by standing on damp soil !!

Good luck, I always hated "stupid" problems.

KenW

Reply to
KenW

Had the same issue - poor connections in the Telco Demark. The 'first' attempt apparently helped the connections such that it rang through if the call-back was relatively immediate.

Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA

Reply to
peterwieck33

Hi, Here is more information (I use my Tracphone to call my landline number):

I scoped the phone line. When there was no problem (phone rings), I saw a nice 20 hz sign wave on the display.

When the phone did NOT ring, I saw what looks like a rounded sawtooth. One sawtooth for each ring period!! The amplitude of the "sawtooth" was much lower than the normal ring signal.

Since I have DSL for internet, is it possible one of the DSL filters might cause this problem?

I am going to disconnect everything in the house at main phone jack, plug in a single spare telephone. If that doesn't ring, then I will contact Verizon. I will post an update later.

Thank You in advance, John

Reply to
jaugustine

I would not be surprised to find out that the problem is external to the ho use. The copper line system is aging and receives minimal maintenance thes e days. I too had intermittent issues with my landline prior to getting FI OS. While not as regular as you, the problem ended up being a connection o n the street a few blocks away. Similar problems prior were traced to the local "switching" station a few towns over.

Dan

Reply to
abrsvc

Yes it could be.

KenW

Reply to
KenW

--
"I am a river to my people." 
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Reply to
Fox's Mercantile

I'll give you some ideas. When/if the telco guy comes out have him fit a DSL filter in the NID. Have everything else ready and be prepared to help. I should be able to supply CAT5 from the NID to the inside of the house,

You have "two lines" at this point. Filtered and unfiltered or split.

With the filters/spliters removed and the modem OFF, you have a normal telephone line. If you turn on the modem (no filters) and pickup an extension, you;ll hear HF noise.

I think it's an important concept.

Hum, it's likely the "protector. In the NID or the old carbon one.

Spiders, wet and poor connections.

Pull the DMARC and look at the resistance into the house. It needs to be high

If it;s not high (like 1M or greater), It's probably a jack and not a phone. Inspect any low lying jacks for spider webs especially ones that can get wet.

he will measure the resistance of the phones in the house and will easily say it;s your problem. Finding it - use your best guess.

Cob webs on the pole is possible too. The ring voltage tends to break through the oxides.

DSL upgrade. Have a splitter installed by the telco. use the highest pair (Pair 4) (8 cond)for DSL. Being all 8 into a parallel punch down block (assuming no alarm RJ31x). Break out to telco and DSL.

Punch down telo and punch down to a RJ11 jack to DSL.

You can buy a CAT 5 straight RJ11-RJ11 to your DSL modem. The modem doesn;t care if the polarity is reversed.

I have a mix of quad cable, no-home run and about 12 phones. No issues. The quad non-home-run was installed by the phone company.

The final plan is aN rj45 phone patch where everything is parallel (a RED PANEl)

Reply to
Ron D.

at roughly the same place. All future telco connections will be RJ45's with inserts that will be RJ11's.

The patch panel has to use straight thru cables, I could patch with RH11's or RJ45'swith inserts.

Re-iterating all wall outlets will be RJ45 with or without RJ1l inserts CAT6. telco patch will be RJ45 jacks. RJ11 inserts a possibility,

Now, I have an easy way of troubleshooting all of those parallel connections,

Surface mount RJ11's or 4-prong jacks close to the floor in a damp locations high probability. Spider webs the likely cause.

I;m planning quad to cat 5 connections too.

==

Your NID may have a 1/2 ringer. Understanding how the NID works helps.

Reply to
Ron D.

I have an intermittent problem with telephone(s) NOT RINGING when someone tries to call. Most of the time, the telephone will ring. Therefore removing all devices from telephone line, then connect one device at a time to find "culprit", is not practical. Note: I removed 3 devices I seldom use from phone line. Ringing voltage increased to 81.VAC (3 devices removed) due other devices loading.

==

It's not likely a device, but wiring, particularly in a jack.

Resistance, toward the house in a disconnected NID is where you start, Use the binary search technique where you remove half of the phones, Go out to the demark. Measure. If a high resistance is not present add half of them back. If you had 1000 phones, it would take like 10 tries. Look up "binary search".

Reply to
Ron D.

For 12 phones make it 8 (A) and 4 (B) problem exist when set A is connected, 1/2 it (4)-c and 4(d) is it c or d? lets say D break D down to E(2) and F(2) Is it in F? Break down F into G(1) and H(1)

BINGO!

It's easier to make the initial 1/2 a power of 2.

Reply to
Ron D.

UPDATE:

This problem got worse (more frequent) in the last couple days. As a result, I was able to determine that NOTHING in the house was the cause.

I disconnected everything at the main phone jack, plugged in a spare telephone at that jack, and used my Tracfone to call my landline number. The first time, the telephone rang. A little while later, I tried it again, and by golly, it did not ring. I contacted Verizon tech support. A service man is scheduled to come Monday.

John

Reply to
jaugustine

That's one of the best diagnostic techniques for a lot of phone problems.

I've found that the following sort of phrasing works wonderfully well: "The problem exists at the demarc, with all premises wiring disconnected from the demarc, and can be demonstrated using either of two different telephones plugged directly into the demarc jack."

That tells the telco customer-service rep (and the tech that they eventually send out) two things: the problem is in _their_ equipment (not yours), and you know enough about the situation that they can't scam you into agreeing to pay for a service call for your inside wiring.

Reply to
Dave Platt

a

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Telco hires trained monkeys to take service calls. I had one insist that it had to be my inside wiring. That was one foot of new station wire to a new jack on the other side of the wall. They finally sent two techs out who de termined that the 50 year old underground trunkline was bad and switched me to another bad copper pair. Centurylink isn't replacing bad underground tr unk, they are waiting to replace it all with Fiber, one of these decades. I lost service during Hurricane Irma. A pedestal at the end of my street was pulled out of the ground by a damaged power pole. The pole was replaced, b ut not the pedestal. They insist that my service was restored, and claim th at I owe a lot of money for a line that never worked, again. I tried to clo se the account at 90 days, but they would only do it if I called from the n umber I wanted terminated. I asked, "How do I do that on a dead line?" They shrugged and tried to sell me a cell phone.

Nothing but poorly trained monkeys. A lot of businesses in the area had to go to VOIP to have usable phone service. Thankfully, the downtown area has

1Gb fiber internet at a good price.
Reply to
Michael Terrell

Had the same problem with AT&T. After dicking me around for 10 years, a tech told me there was water in a quarter mile long underground cable and they weren't going to replace it.

Reply to
Chuck

You need to make sure that the connecting cable is also different.

Also be aware that the telco repair person might not be knowledgeable eithe r.

I asked the repair person that came out for a service call should the cord from the jack to the wall be straight or crossed. He said he taught techni cians and the cord should be straight-thru which is the wrong answer.

Only patch cables should be straight-thru.

Most modern phones don;t care if the wires are crossed or straight and, it appears, that neither do the phone technicians. Old bell touch tone phones must have the polarity to work for the keypad to work.

The "protector" and the interface (jack and 1/2 ringer) can also be a sourc e of potential problems. There also might be two protectors. One in the N ID and one inside from old wiring.

The 1/2 ringer can sometimes be removed when you have DSL.

Wet spider webs have been the big issues for me as well as connections from the CO. One guy came back and said I just removed 1000 feet from your ser vice, Another guy came back with a foot of spliced cable where the insulat ion was removed in places and said this was your problem.

The telco guy typically deals with the naked pairs and removes the NID from being the problem.

Reply to
Ron D.

True Story. Back in the 80s I lived in a Redmond WA neighborhood that had all sorts of water problems. I had to deal with tons of water flowing across my property from uphill houses. My phone started getting all sorts of static on it but I wasn't surprised because we had GTE and they seemed to be light on servicing their equipment. We had a phone box in our front yard. One of those small boxes that sits atop a pipe. The box was probably 14 inches long by 4 inches wide by about the same deep. Anyway, I went outside for some reason and water is squirting out of the box seams! It was hilarious. Static problem found. So I went inside and called GTE to tell them about it. The woman I spoke to told me that water was not used in phone systems. I insisted that I knew that and that's why I called. Water was not supposed to be squirting out of their phone box. I finally convinced her to send out someone and she told me that I was going to be charged a service fee if I was wrong about water coming out of their box. When the service guy arrived and saw the box he was shocked and then laughed out loud. Needless to say there was no charge on my phone bill. Eric

Reply to
etpm

Do you have any buzzing, hum or crackling when on this phone line? That is a strong suggestion of a "ground on the line" ie. one of the wires has a pinhole and is leaking current to the earth. These can be intermittent and cause all sorts of odd system behavior, such as no ring, hangups after ring (ring voltage increases ground leakage so CO thinks line has been picked up momentarily, then drops the call) and of course, in the worst case, no dial tone.

Jon

Reply to
Jon Elson

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it had to be my inside wiring. That was one foot of new station wire to a new jack on the other side of the wall. They finally sent two techs out who determined that the 50 year old underground trunkline was bad and switched me to another bad copper pair. Centurylink isn't replacing bad underground trunk, they are waiting to replace it all with Fiber, one of these decades . I lost service during Hurricane Irma. A pedestal at the end of my street was pulled out of the ground by a damaged power pole. The pole was replaced , but not the pedestal. They insist that my service was restored, and claim that I owe a lot of money for a line that never worked, again. I tried to close the account at 90 days, but they would only do it if I called from th e number I wanted terminated. I asked, "How do I do that on a dead line?" T hey shrugged and tried to sell me a cell phone.

to go to VOIP to have usable phone service. Thankfully, the downtown area h as 1Gb fiber internet at a good price.

The on hook voltage often dropped to a little under 4VDC. It was rarely abo ve 30VDC. The techs that came said the entire subdivision had very old unde rground cable and over half the pairs were open. A few homes were fed from two pairs, each with an open wire. The line was always noisy. I only kept i t, because cell service and internet went down during heavy storms and hurr icanes. Cell service here has improved quite a bit in the last 20 years.

Reply to
Michael Terrell

MORE UPDATE:

A service man did NOT come.

Verizon is still working on the problem. I was told by a tech support person that they are working on the cable (not outside my house).

John

Reply to
jaugustine

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