I need a solution for this if one exists. At the end of the street is an obviously defective trunk. I've been round and round with the phone co and last time which was last week or so. This has happened before, when the heavy rains come we get about two thirds of a ring and then the caller gets noise and then a fast busy or a message to please try their call again.
It has recurred over the years and what is happening is the cable is wet with plenty of residue no doubt and the ring voltage is causing a breach of the insulation, the substation or whatever then thinks the phone was picked up, but when the voltage drops the breach stops.
To complicate matters I now have DSL on the line and an HF carrier surely can't be helping.
Anyway the question is : can somebody tell me just what limits there are on what I can do at this end ? I am prepared to build a supressor if nessecary to at least forestall the problem. If I put the supressor on my line it should protect the trunk pair since they are connected. The question is, how much can I supress the ring voltage without triggering the "tip" sense. If I can just decrease the ring voltage enough it will happen alot less.
I've worked with the telco on the phone, making them look up the history and I was right.
I don't know exactly what to use, VDRs and some resistors, or simply a resistor to boost my RE. Also I have no old style inductive ringers on the line, and if I did I would have already disconnected them for reasons obvious.
Perhaps I should simply pad it with resistance ? Perhaps incorporating a bandpass for the DSL. I know if I use non-linear devices like VDRs or Zeners the internet will probably slow down, but only while the phone is actually ringing. I could live with that.
I'm not asking anyone to design this, but I'd like some ideas on how the phonco's computer will handle what. Even a ballpark figure from which to start would be nice. Just how much can I clamp it without causing a false tip ?
I know this is somebody else's job, but I need the problem to STOP HAPPENING. I can't miss calls like this.
I can sympathize, had a similar problem a few years back on a few of my lines... (used to run a large bbs, for those old enough to remember what they are :)
Problem here is that water got into the lines at the point of exit from the ground, where it came up the side of the house to enter. Worse than yours, it always kept the lines off-hook, and even when the telco disconnected at their end there was a bit of noisy ac on the lines. (not sine like ac, just weird noise)
Only cure was to remove and re-do the whole thing. Tough, 'cause almost all was hiding under the driveway.
Having wasted so much bandwidth saying all that, your proposed cure confuses me... if you, at your end, introduce resistance, then the load will decrease, and the ring voltage will be higher at the problem point, won't it?
Suggest that you get your telco to come out, use ringback on the line, and watch it from inside your house. Then work backwards 'till they find the trouble spot.
Corporation Commission or the like. Telcos don't like the Corporation Commission inquiring. Or do some trouble shootong of your own and send Telco a bill.
Why is there "obviously a defective trunk?" Do you mean a defective cable?
The Telco is able to measure line leakage to ground and across the pair. They can also place a controlled ring on the cable so see if they can break-down a wet spot, If they have done this, what was the result? At some point they should have had you unplug the RJ11 plug from the Telco's jack at the Network Interface, to determine if the trouble is in their cable or your premises wiring. Has this been done?
In what manner do you believe the DSL is affecting the "ring trip?" Are there any problems with the DSL during the heavy rains?
There is nothing you can do to help matters if the problem is in the Telco cable.
You are right about exactly what?
And on the subject of false trip..... How many Ringer Equivalents (REN) are connected to the phone line? Too many ringers can cause ring trips. It usually sounds like a "bell tap" from a bell, or a brief chirp from electronic ringers.
If they have done all the tests and agree they have a problem, they should fix it asap and no excuses.
I've had this happen a couple of times in two different houses. The first time I had no clue as where the problem was. The second time the cable splice was right outside my back door. It was always after a heavy rain. In this case the problem was we'd be connected to other peoples line. It was like having a party line. Every time I'd see a telco guy out there working on this gigantic splice in the cable that had hundreds of splices all bundled together and wrapped in kind of a heavy black plastic. Every tech I talked to told the same story. "We have to come out here every time there's a big rain and we complain but nobody higher up will act." Well finally after about 2 years that that splice is in what looks like a huge black case that apparently is waterproof because our problems have finally gone away. Sheesh! Richard
I've read your post, and others', replies on this subject and just want to add my $.02 concerning recent dealings with the Telco (BellSouth in my case):
I've got four separate physical phone cables attached to my house, swagged accross a two hundred foot span to the pole. We started out 15 years ago with only two lines in a single cable. Over the years, the inordinately long span, coupled with various physical events--like tree limbs and ice storms--have introduced open circuits in the lines. Each time one goes out, instead of replacing the run from the pole to the house, they just *add another one!* Now I have three phone numbers, and four cables. I don't know how many of them work. In the middle of the span, they are barely five foot off the ground.
Last service call, they 'found' a working pair and simply re-hooked wires which were already present (possibly ones which had gone out years ago?).
But that's not the main issue. On the second to last service call, the lineman alerted me to the fact that my entire bundle of cable was being born upon by the cable companies trunk line. He said he'd fix it when he got the chance.....
Sure enough, I went out to the alley, and there was a cable bearing at a right angle on the quad of phone cables running across the yard to the house.
Two weeks another of our three lines went dead following a storm, while another developed noise and the false trip syndrome. It took them three days to get it all working again. (Idiots were totally confused by my 'off premise extension' ie I have one number connected at a totally different address. They 'thought' that since I had a dial tone, the everything was hunky-dory. I had to make another service call to explain to them that the number was only working at one address.)
Guess what...they left the lines as they were, still with someone elses cable dragging them down.
But, here's the real treat: I traced the cable which was bearing on my already overburdened phone cables. Far from being cable company issue, the actual identity of that line is the *AC power drop to my neighbor's house!* It obviously originates at the pole pig at the other neighbor's property line, swags all the way across his and mine, and is guyed from three points where it turns and runs down the far property line. The TV cable is an obvious separate run...easily identified, and not a problem.
Add to that, all four of my phone cables are anchored to an ancient, undersized pole on the far side of the alley. The thing is only about 8" in diameter...rotten and bowed over from the load.
Given that I don't have any phone problems at the moment...how do I get them to fix the lines?
"spudnuty" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
I've had similar problems with the Telco. It can be a real pain in the ass, not only with the techs but the screw balls who are clueless - answering the phones to start with. They never seem to want to accept responsibility.
One instance, there were two lines in this building that went down at the same time. One "I" wired in, the other - the Telco wired in. When I called, first they tried to say it was my computer, it was my answering machine, it was my phone, and on and on and on. Then when I said all was unplugged separately and together to no avail, they said it was my workmanship. I said "look, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to wire a phone line up. Secondly, I hold a Commercial FCC license, I sure in hell ought to know how to do something so simple. And third, the other phone line which is down right now in this building, was wired in by YOUR people - so there. It isn't just "my" work that has failed." That kind of blew them out of the water. It turned out to be a box on a pole a mile away from my house - according to them - that was causing the problem.
I had the problem reoccur about 3 years later. They tried the same routine with me, but I reminded them of the past problem and whalah, it was the "same" problem. Yeah, they're quick to blame the consumer. I guess they think all consumers are stupid. You should be able to withhold payment, placing it in an Escrow account until the problem is fixed. Also, check with the Public Utility Commission as well. I'm not sure how they will help, sometimes they don't seem so effectiive either.
My neighbor was having trouble with her phone lines. My "Ham" station was reported to be coming across her system. My system was grounded, filtered, etc. They called the phone company. One of the village idiots employed by them said as was told to me by the lady - oh, it's his fault, his ham equipment is causing it. The woman came to my door and demanded I stop talking on my radios or she was calling the FCC. I asked her - which number do you want, Gettysburg or Langhorne PA - or - Washington DC? I said it is NOT my equipment. She said well the phone man said it was. I shut the door. I called the phone company and asked to speak to their supervisor. I told him the problem and the accusation. He said he'd look up the repair bill to see who it was and set him straight. He also said, NO, I don't think it is your fault and I'll get to the bottom of it. They came back out and fixed a "GROUND" on that lady's phone system. IT wasn't grounded. They had to eat crow........ The lot of them. I've never heard a peep out of them since. Has she approached me politely I would have assisted her to find the problem. But, being so rude, I thought it best to allow a Neutral party to intercede. I would have went further had I gotten no satisfaction with the Telco.
Another phone issue....... About 4 years ago, our entire area's phone system crashed. Of about 2000+ people, only a very few could make calls. I am in a position where it behooved me to call to look into the problem. I did and was told up front, "just have everyone use cell phones." Good answer - NOT. Most of the elderly in this area that "I" know, don't have cell phones. Hell, some still have rotary phones. It was said the lines went down due to overload due to computer users, etc. Hmmm. Well anyway, I told that numb nut - the elderly here don't all have "cell" phones, there are MANY who have "no" phones at all and those who may need to call 911 can't go running up and down the street trying to figure out WHO had phone use and who didn't. That was my argument to the Telco. I also told them I would notify the FCC as well as hold them liable for any problems due to lack of phone service. In the mean time, we did set up an emergency network to deal with the communications problem, having people man the Fire Station radios as well.
It is pretty easy to check "your" phone lines outside - which the Telco will tell you to do anyway. So, best to check there first then tell them you did it. After a hard rain, unless "you" wired phones up with wires outside in the elements, it is typically the Phone Company's problem. Most "consumer" wiring is inside. Problems there can be a bad phone or phone device (quickly identified by removing phone or device), wires which have come off connector in box (screw loosened up due to not being tightened or vibration), broken wires from whatever reason - did some one move furniture lately near a line? Install anything using nails or screws to maybe severe a line? Are lines being run loosely under rugs, desks, etc - where someone may trip over them or rip them by getting feet tangled in them. The Teleco will claim - too many devices on a system. When you buy a device it gives a ringer rating. You can add them up to make sure you don't overload the system. Your telco can tell you for sure what the rating may be in your area. And, it very well may vary in location. Also, I've seen bugs nests in my line of work - mainly due to roaches - which caused phones to cease working. YUCK -that is one of the things which turns me off - NOW. "I" do phone repairs for part of my business. Have seen some normal stuff and some weird things too. Never "assume". Check all out - or you may find yourself going back to find the assumed good item to be at fault.
Electric Company funny.... I called in a burned out street light once that was in dire need of being replaced as it left a rather very dark area being no other lights around. The lady who answered for the Electric company said - why don't you replace it yourself? WTH? I asked for her supervisor immediately. Man, what idiots.....
Thought of one likely sounding work around that you might use until it's properly fixed... so that the young ladies will still be able to call you :)
See if you can't get your hands on one of those answering machines that answer instantly. That way you should be able to pick up while your caller is leaving you a message and have your conversation.
The ratio of hang ups to messages left on my machine is around 50/50 or less. Many people hear the machine and automatically hang up and call the cel. I explain to them (as the cel phone is beeping to let me know my voice mail is calling) that whenever they call the office line, the voicemail automatically calls and plays the message back for me...whether they left one or not.
Annoying, but there's no way to screen the hang ups.
The OP would be better served by forwarding his landline to a cel phone when he's having issues.
It 'would' snap like a matchstick, no doubt...bringing the phone lines and the neighbor's power line down on me...be kinda hard to explain and hard on the truck to boot. That's not even counting the probable damage to the house when the lines shock-load the strain relief to which they're connected...not to mention having all three phone lines down for dog knows how long.
Replace it yourself? I'd love to be told that, I could get rid of that awful ugly orange HPS light near my house and retrofit it with nice white metal halide.
Ya got it all wrong. It's send all your money _from_ the USA.
Each time I drive the I-40 stretch between Arizona and Barstow, Calif. (it parallels a major railroad corridor), I see all those rail cars loaded with "CHINA SHIPPING" sea containers. I know they are full of clap-trap junque headed for WalMart when they are rolling east. I am quite sure they are packed full of 20 dollar bills when rolling back west.
Jonesy
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Marvin L Jones | jonz | W3DHJ | linux
Pueblo, Colorado | @ | Jonesy | OS/2 __
38.24N 104.55W | config.com | DM78rf | SK
Or never left there. Good to know that a nation that has marriage ceremonies for monkeys and goats is trusted to analyze your tax returns and your wife's breast X-Rays.
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