So what's the truth about lead-free solder ? - Page 10

Do you have a question? Post it now! No Registration Necessary

Translate This Thread From English to

Threaded View
Re: So what's the truth about lead-free solder ?

Quoted text here. Click to load it

I'm not sure that I would find this "surprising", having seen the general
performance of lead-free from a service angle, for several years now. At the
end of the day, like several other technologies we have been forced to ditch
as a result of dubious science and conclusions, lead-based soldering was a
mature, proven, and above all *reliable* way to construct electronic
equipment.

If Boeing Corporation are really leading research into the performance of
this hateful material, then I hope that it is with a view to reinforcing the
avionics industry's opinion that this stuff has no right to up be in the
sky, and responsible for getting 450 people safely to their destination. If
they are researching with the intention of determining the best compromise
alloy to use in place of conventional solder, then I believe that is indeed
a worrying development ...

It would be interesting to know from someone directly involved in avionics
or avionics service, how many in-service equipment failures are currently as
a result of bad joints, and what sorts of levels of failures are being
recorded in the vibration tests that must be being done on evaluation sample
pieces, constructed with lead-free.

Arfa



Re: So what's the truth about lead-free solder ?

Quoted text here. Click to load it


  Bullshit.  Lead based solder alloys are superior in damn near all
electronic realms, and there is no configuration where they would not be
other than high end commercial and military applications, and they
certainly do not include Tin.

  RoHS is a Euro-ploy to boost the Euro-dollar, and there is no health
problem surrounding lead alloyed solders.

  It is all bullshit, and it was all bullshit when it was started.

  We already had regulations in place for such matters for DECADES.

 Get a clue.

Re: So what's the truth about lead-free solder ?



Quoted text here. Click to load it

Whilst I don't disagree with you, where's the hard comparative data ?


Quoted text here. Click to load it

I only wish it was just the EU.


Quoted text here. Click to load it

FYI, the idea(l) behind RoHS is to encourage recycling by removing elements that
would be troublesome otherwise.

Personally, I can think of no good reason to attempt to 'recycle' old printed
circuit boards. For example it appears to be both uneconomic and likely energy
wasteful too.

Graham


Re: So what's the truth about lead-free solder ?
On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 10:27:43 +0100, Eeyore

Quoted text here. Click to load it


 Considering the fact that we have 5 decade old circuit cards still
operating perfectly, and that we already know what alloys containing Tin
which is not bound by Lead do over time and temperature cycling, I do not
think that precise numerical analysis is even needed on such a profoundly
lopsided issue.

Re: So what's the truth about lead-free solder ?



Quoted text here. Click to load it

Whilst I  agree with you, bureacrats tend not to be very receptive to anecdotal
comment. And make no mistake, the bureacrats are the ones in control of this.

Graham



Re: So what's the truth about lead-free solder ?

Quoted text here. Click to load it

I have just this minute finished repairing a Panasonic DAB / FM radio which
was dying as soon as it was switched on, with a "F76 Pdet" error in the
display. I took this to be "power detect", which seemed reasonable, given
the symptoms. When I took the main board out to have a look at the
underside, I found the power supply section riddled with poor and
'cracked-right-round'  lead-free solder joints ( the board actually has
"PbF" silk-screened on it ). The poor joints were particularly well defined
on the main free-air cooled regulator transistor, which is obviously subject
to thermal cycling.

I reworked all the joints with lead-free, as that is what the RoHS
legislation legally charges me to do as a commercial repair outfit, but boy,
the temptation was strong to just reach for the leaded solder, and do the
job 'properly' ...

Arfa



Re: So what's the truth about lead-free solder ?



Quoted text here. Click to load it

Have you considered documenting this stuff ? With a scan or a pic for example ?

What do you tell the customer ? That Greenpeace is to blame ?

Graham


Re: So what's the truth about lead-free solder ?
Quoted text here. Click to load it
not
Tin
not
profoundly
which
defined
subject
boy,

What was the chipcode dates on that DAB ?
No more than 2 years old no doubt.

If you had not repaired it than also no doubt it would have ended in
landfill taking with it ,perhaps not lead, but antimony, bismuth, tin,
copper, barium , phthalates etc

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
We've slightly trimmed the long signature. Click to see the full one.
Re: So what's the truth about lead-free solder ?
On a sunny day (Wed, 25 Jul 2007 12:28:58 +0100) it happened "N Cook"

Quoted text here. Click to load it

Actually, in the long ago past when I had the TV repair shop, I had exactly
the same problem on old tube connectors in PCBs and also on inductiors, and old
Philips K8 connectors, some after 2 years too I think.
With leaded solder.
This is also also an issue of better connections, some that allow some movement,
like WIRES for example...
I mean use flexible wires to connect the hot components to a PCB.
That defeats the idea of PCB perhaps.
But I only wanted to point out that that thermal effect is also present in leaded
solder.
It could be worse in leadfree, but you'd have to test in the same setup.
He *could* have resoldered one with 60/40 and when it comes back in 2 years
see which ones gave way ;-)
 



workin gas TV repair

Re: So what's the truth about lead-free solder ?



Quoted text here. Click to load it

The temperature cycles would have been rather higher methinks.

Graham


Re: So what's the truth about lead-free solder ?



Quoted text here. Click to load it

No, that's illegal per the rules from the idiots in Brussels. It could result in
a
fine of 2000.

Graham


Re: So what's the truth about lead-free solder ?

Quoted text here. Click to load it


  And lead free utilization does exactly what against these elements and
compounds?

Re: So what's the truth about lead-free solder ?
Quoted text here. Click to load it

If you use leadfree solder, remember that the temperature is a bit
higher, and this makes the fumes from resin much more dangerous to
YOU..
Second.. if the components is made for leadfree solder , it can happen
that the tin/lead solder wont make a good solder-joint. ( but I agree
that sometimes one is tempted )
Alex


Re: So what's the truth about lead-free solder ?



Quoted text here. Click to load it

No, that's not true AIUI. It's the other way round.

Graham


Re: So what's the truth about lead-free solder ?



Quoted text here. Click to load it

Do you always talk shit ?

Graham


Re: So what's the truth about lead-free solder ?
On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 10:43:08 +0100, Eeyore

Quoted text here. Click to load it


  If the water tables around an outdoor shooting range had any higher
levels of lead leeched into them, the whole world would know about it,
and that is what we call NEWS.

  FACT is that there is no such lead level increase in such areas, and
they dump TONS of lead into the ground at popular ranges.

 FACT is that I have been touching, rubbing, etc. lead alloy soldered
circuit card assemblies (as well as the solder itself) my entire adult
life, and my lead levels are lower than the doc had previously seen for
someone my age, the last time I had that test taken  ( about four years
ago).

Re: So what's the truth about lead-free solder ?
On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 10:27:43 +0100, Eeyore

Quoted text here. Click to load it


  Lead alloy solders in discarded circuit assemblies does NOT pose any
"troublesome" issues for the environment.

 Fact:  Metallic form lead solder alloys, or even raw metallic form Lead
does NOT pose a problem for water tables or land fills.

 Aside from the polymer materials provided for in the "regulation", RoHS
is total bullshit.

Re: So what's the truth about lead-free solder ?
On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 10:27:43 +0100, Eeyore

Quoted text here. Click to load it


  If one (read a business) had an incinerator for refuse, which is common
in the US, one could very easily have enough heat energy "left over" to
reflow, and "Smack and Gather" soldered assemblies after they reach
reflow temperatures.

 It would not take long to gather a ton of "solder".

  A ton is a ton is a ton, and gathering several grams from each assembly
one has for salvage makes the planet more "green", because reprocessing
lead, and lead alloys is far easier  and less costly than mining it.    

Re: So what's the truth about lead-free solder ?



Quoted text here. Click to load it

Incinerators are now deprecated since the greenies say they make dioxins.

Actually, I'd expect a lot of solder to turn to oxides and go up the smoke stack
if
subjected to high temps.

Graham



Re: So what's the truth about lead-free solder ?
On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 10:45:30 +0100, Eeyore

Quoted text here. Click to load it
energy
Quoted text here. Click to load it

  Fully operating incinerators are sprinkled all over this country. There
was even some twit on TV the other day claiming that their placement was
racist.
Quoted text here. Click to load it
stack if
Quoted text here. Click to load it

  Do you know the rate that pure Lead oxidizes?  Do you know the rate at
which 63/37 Tin Lead Solder oxidizes at?

  Bullets are still being found in old US Civil War battle fields, and
they are practically pristine balls.  No crust whatsoever.

 What actually happens with pure Lead is that it's first few mils of
depth become "tempered", similar to aluminum anodization.

  So it becomes harder, and would oxidize even less.

Site Timeline