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Re: So what's the truth about lead-free solder ?

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 Fuck off, yap dog.

Re: So what's the truth about lead-free solder ?
On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 08:14:19 +0100, Eeyore

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and there's
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Actually it was
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of nonsence
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the CWT (centre
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  That part landed in the water, idiot.  I am talking about the show, so
don't go getting confused, cockroach.  I know how easy it is for you to
forget how to grasp what you read.

Re: So what's the truth about lead-free solder ?



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wing and there's
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Actually it was
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kind of nonsence
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the CWT (centre
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Obfuscation noted.

So you accept that not all the fuel is stored in the wings or not ?

Graham



Re: So what's the truth about lead-free solder ?

<snip>
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IMHO, 'Lexx' may have incorporated some good conceptual science
fiction but its embodiment and style left out pretty much anyone
over age 21.

Regards,

Michael

Re: So what's the truth about lead-free solder ?



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Oh Lord ! Did he say Lexx was to be taken seriously ?

It was a hoot for sure... but *serious*... !!!! ?????

Graham


Re: So what's the truth about lead-free solder ?
On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 06:58:36 +0100, Eeyore

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  No one said a goddamned thing about taking ANY fiction seriously, you
complete and utterly retarded loon.

 I said that a twit like you could not get the show without watching the
entire 4 episode first season.

 It was a pretty good show.

  Another good one was... of course, Farscape.

  You're so stupid, you probably liked "Battlefield Earth".

  The Forbidden Planet is one of my all time favorite films, but in a
hard look at it, it could easily be defines as fairly simplistic, and
many things today outdo it by far.

  I have several copies in several formats of it.  The HD version is the
best, by far.

  You're not a donkey, you're a goddamned cockroach.

Re: So what's the truth about lead-free solder ?



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"  Do you actually think you could grasp a deep show like "Lexx" "

Care to distance yourself from the above ? Especially the 'deep' bit ?

Graham


Re: So what's the truth about lead-free solder ?
On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 07:14:58 +0100, Eeyore

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 You obviously do not understand what part of the show was deep.

  The insect war was over thousands of years prior...

 Or so everyone thought.  In fact, the insect(s) were still alive.

  Like I said, it wasn't "serious", but it was quite deep.

 Far beyond a twit like you, cockroach boy.

Re: So what's the truth about lead-free solder ?



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Uhuh.

Seen a shrink recently ?

Graham


Re: So what's the truth about lead-free solder ?

<snip>
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Thanks for mentioning 'Forbidden Planet'; I sadly only have it on Beta.
Indeed, it breaks ground in a very-well executed fashion using the
cinematic technology available at the time and its characters are
believable IMHO -- also a good script doesn't hurt ;)

Star Trek, for example, owes a great deal to it as many of its core concepts
are first realized in the film.

Regards,

Michael

Re: So what's the truth about lead-free solder ?


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I am definitely _NOT_ a fan of 'Lost'; but don't you suppose that you Brits
ought to take a little responsibility since you started it all with
'The Prisoner' (Patrick McGoohan).

Regards,

Michael

Re: So what's the truth about lead-free solder ?



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It's
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clue
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'The Prisoner' was always clearly full-blown escapionist nonsense. Along with the
likes of  The Avengers. Entertaining but not to be taken seriously ever.

Quite different.

Graham


Re: So what's the truth about lead-free solder ?
<snip>

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the
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Indeed... In one of the many cycles of airing 'The Prisoner' on PBS here in the
States, there was 15 minutes of psycho-social analysis and commentary at the end
of each episode, some segments even included Mr. McGoohan who evidently had some
control over production and scripts.  It was all very heavy, full of cold-war
themed
allegory and psychiatric theory, existentialism, psychedelic references, etc.,
etc.

BTW, <humor> My spell checker always suggests replacing your handle with
'Eyesore' </humor>

Regards,

Michael

Re: So what's the truth about lead-free solder ?



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with the
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end
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some
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themed
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etc.
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Yes, Phil Allison does that.

The Prisoner was shot at Portmeiron on the Welsh coast. It's a tourist
destination now.
http://www.portmeirion-village.com/en/features.php?id24%&MID38 %

Nice village btw.

The father of a friend of mine was once offered the opportunity to buy the place
!

Graham




Re: So what's the truth about lead-free solder ?

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I seem to think that Patrick McGoohan was executive producer or some such,
and the concept was born out of his earlier black and white show "Danger Man
". I remember seeing an interview with him ( which was rare as he didn't do
interviews about the show normally ) on a programme that examined the whole
series, and he was asked about the final two parter "Fallout" I think it's
called. He said that by that time, the whole story thread had gone out of
the window, and they literally had no clue as to how to end it, or even
really what exactly it had been about in the first place. It had basically
just got swept along with the hype and its popularity, until it became a
living thing just existing to keep the fans happy. It was a brave decision
to end it in the way that they did, and it probably let a lot of fans down.
I love Lost to bits - except when it's going through one of its frustrating
patches - but I think that there may be rather more parallels with The
Prisoner than are at first apparent, and that Lost might be heading down the
same road ...

Arfa



Re: So what's the truth about lead-free solder ?



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Can you remind me how The Prisoner ended  ?

If you haven't been to Portmeirion you should btw. It's a lovely place. It's the
ultimate 'folly'.

Graham


Re: So what's the truth about lead-free solder ?

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Oh boy, where do you start on that one ? Apart from the fact that it's been
probably 10 years since I last saw it, I seem to recall the whole story
being a really surreal thing full of 'hidden meanings' and 'symbolism' (or
maybe not ?? ) about what Number 1 was and what it all meant and how it
related to society. There was loads of debate and interpretation stuff at
the time as I remember. I have this hazy memory of some kind of court
proceedings going on and him somehow coming face to face with himself. The
whole concept of what we thought it was about, was turned on its head I
think ( a bit like Lost ). The next thing I remember is him being in a taxi
and being back in London driving over a bridge somewhere near Westminster -
or maybe that's from another episode. Actually, there must be loads on the
web about this, rather than trusting my memory. Hang on a minute whilst I go
and look ....

.... OK. Try this for size. Seems to be as good a synopsis and analysis as
any


http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/classic/prisoner/episodeguide/seventeen.shtml

Arfa



Re: So what's the truth about lead-free solder ?

 And that's if Global Warming doesn't get us first...

If you believe that to be a possibility, are you not concerned about the
additional carbon based fuels used to heat these lead free solders to the
higher temperatures that they require?

Leonard



Re: So what's the truth about lead-free solder ?
On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 19:47:40 -0400, "Leonard Caillouet"

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Good one.

Re: So what's the truth about lead-free solder ?
It is really application and chip package specific, and even makes a big
difference on where the chip is mounted on the board.  It also makes a big
difference on the various lead finishes, process steps and how they are
done, and which of the common 23 lead-free mixes you use.  Would you believe
ENIG finishes can even cause issues with lead-free?

Personally, if you look there is a consortium lead by Boeing, of areospace
industries, who have been doing a lot of testing on the subject, and ended
up settling on just 1 or 2 alloys that perform the best in the early phases,
to pick out which ones to run thru the gauntlet- with control subject of
regular leaded solder.

If you do searches on key documents/terms listed within these, you will find
more than you ever wanted to know:
http://www.aciusa.org/leadfree/LFS_SUMMIT-PDF/12_TOUW_AIA-AMC-GEIA_LEAP_WG_Brief.pdf
http://www.calce.umd.edu/lead-free/SMTAExemptMay8.pdf
http://www.jgpp.com/projects/lead_free_soldering/presentations.html - a
whole list of documents
http://www.jgpp.com/projects/lead_free_soldering/Dec_04_Presentations/Vianco%20Ag%20JEM-0409-991.pdf
http://www.jgpp.com/projects/lead_free_soldering/Dec_04_Presentations/Kirkendall%20Voids.pdf
http://www.jgpp.com/projects/lead_free_soldering/Dec_04_Presentations/121404Woodrow.pdf
http://www.jgpp.com/projects/lead_free_soldering/documents/031605_Presentations/Raytheon_Combined_Environments_Testing_Status_backup_3_16_05.pdf

Another key term to search for is Thomas Woodrow, who has dedicated years
attempting to unravel this puzzle for best practices.

When looking at these presentations, it is important to look hard into the
nitty gritty of the source references, or you will easily end up with the
wrong conclusions.  Things like a good number of the tests were done with
immersion silver, and ENIG (gold) and other board finishes can have a big
impact on the results of the test.  ENIG has it's own issues, such as a big
increase in what is becomming known as "black pad" failures when lead-free
solders are used with it.  As I recall, it had something to do with the ENIG
process steps, which vary from board house to board house.

In the second one, several working groups have found the failure shown in
page 33 of the document( pdf page 33), where you can see cracks running all
through the BGA ball, and a rather clear separation off the pad.  Caused by
temperature cycling, and failures in less than 150 thermal cycles!

Tin Whiskers Theory and Mitigation Practices Guideline:
http://www.jedec.org/DOWNLOAD/search/JP002.pdf

"The amount of damage required for
a BGA to fail on an assembly was used to predict lifetimes for other BGAs,
at other locations, on the same board. They tested: Sn3.9Ag0.6 for reflow
soldering, Sn3.4Ag1.0Cu3.3Bi for reflow, Sn0.7Cu0.05Ni for wave, and
63Sn37Pb for reflow and wave. The surprising part is that BGAs using
tin/lead will outlast SAC BGAs by a factor of 20x. Thus, SAC BGAs in
high-reliability electronics could be problematic in high-vibration
environments.
...
There has been no other transition to affect all aspects of our industry
as fundamentally as lead-free. Predicting reliability will prevent future
disasters, and that's the best reason to glean information from all
approaches. There's still so much we need to know."
http://listserv.ipc.org/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind0706&L=Leadfree&P14%44


----- Original Message -----
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design,sci.electronics.repair
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 3:42 PM
Subject: So what's the truth about lead-free solder ?


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