So what's the truth about lead-free solder ? - Page 11

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Re: So what's the truth about lead-free solder ?



Spurious Response wrote:

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So all those owners of lead mines are wasting all that
money doing things the more expensive way as a public
service?  


Re: So what's the truth about lead-free solder ?

I dunno, but soluble core solder Rocks  :)

Re: So what's the truth about lead-free solder ?
On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 23:42:47 +0100, Eeyore

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Don't look to this newsgroup for factual info on lead free!  Instead
look at actual test results in the trade publications such as SMT
magazine:
http://smt.pennnet.com/home.cfm
They have published numerous tests comparing various lead free
materials and processes with tin-lead.  Some lead free materials and
processes are better than others (no surprise) and picking the best
one for your situation is non-trivial.

My nutshell summary of the published test results is that lead free is
significantly harder to do right than tin-lead, requiring tighter
process controls, but if done right it can be more reliable than
tin-lead for non-shock situations.  Lead free is harder, stronger and
more brittle than tin-lead so tin-lead will deform plastically under
high shock when lead free will break, however lead free will withstand
more hot-cold cycles than before failure than tin-lead (better fatigue
resistance).  So you need to know what the significant failure
mechanisms are in your design to pick the most reliable materials.

Glen

Re: So what's the truth about lead-free solder ?

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And in the meantime whilst smaller manufacturers who don't have the
resources of the big boys to research this crap in sufficient detail to find
the 'correct' process to replace the previously utterly reliable and simple
leaded soldering that they were using, cartloads of electronic equipment are
failing as a result of the bad joints that the experimentation or 'best fit'
replacement alloys are causing.

I wonder what qualifies you to make that remark at the beginning of your
post, telling people not to look to this group for 'factual' information on
lead-free ? When I tell you that I work day in day out with equipment from
major manufacturers that uses the stuff, and that since they have been using
it, I have seen the incidence of bad joints in places that would never
previously have suffered, skyrocket, do you consider that to not be
'factual' ? Am I lying perhaps ? There are many good engineers that
contribute to this group, and most have reported seeing an increase in such
bad joints. Are they all being less than 'factual' ?

When push comes to shove, this is an electronic repair group, frequented by,
amongst others, repair professionals who have to deal with the effects of
legislation such as RoHS, and its implications, at the sharp end, which is
more than the manufacturers and political activists / pseudo scientists
responsible for creating these situations, do. As such, I feel that it is
therefore rather presumptuous of you to suggest that opinions voiced on this
group, are not based in fact, and thus not valid.

Arfa



Re: So what's the truth about lead-free solder ?
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MORE reliable? Please elaborate.

--
"Liberals used to be the ones who argued that sending U.S. troops abroad
was a small price to pay to stop genocide; now they argue that genocide
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Re: So what's the truth about lead-free solder ?

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The reason that one might speculate this is that PbF solder has a higher
melting point and is harder, thus perhaps less prone to thermal damaged due
to cycling.  This might be the case IF done right, but there are so many
variables that it is impossible to generalize this.  The fact is that most
in the field realize that it is much easier to get it right with leaded
solder, and it is generally considered to be more reliable for most
applications.  In fact, there are exemptions for critical applications that
allow leaded solder, even in the EU.  The biggest problem that I have seen
in consumer electronics with PbF is that not enough solder is deposited in
the automated process of making the boards.  This aften leads to an
unreliable joint.  It is also harder to get good results in repairs with
PbF, as it requires higher temperatures and even the most freindly
formulations do not wet and flow as well.

Leonard



Re: So what's the truth about lead-free solder ?
On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 18:14:20 -0400 in sci.electronics.design, "Leonard
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Lead Fluoride???
 
 

Re: So what's the truth about lead-free solder ?

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It's for brushing your mercury fillings.

--
"Liberals used to be the ones who argued that sending U.S. troops abroad
was a small price to pay to stop genocide; now they argue that genocide
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Re: So what's the truth about lead-free solder ?

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  SHOCK....  and AWE!

Re: So what's the truth about lead-free solder ?
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Aw, not so shocking.

--
"Liberals used to be the ones who argued that sending U.S. troops abroad
was a small price to pay to stop genocide; now they argue that genocide
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Re: So what's the truth about lead-free solder ?

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 Not when it is shorting out!

  It reminds me of the old stacked type "Record changers".

  That is exactly what they did to your collection if you played them
from a stack.

   RoHS = "Circuit Changers"

 Start with one circuit, the one you designed, and find out in short
order that the element Tin has decided to change your circuit into some
pile of crap.

  RoHS is going to create MORE landfill waste., and MORE downtime, and
more costly repair cycles, etc., etc., etc.  ad infinitum.

  Worst "technological advancement" ever introduced, in all of human
history.

Re: So what's the truth about lead-free solder ?



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Get a grip and wipe the froth from your lips.

SO ! What are you going to do about it ?

Graham



Re: So what's the truth about lead-free solder ?
On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 04:17:26 +0100, Eeyore

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  Fuck off, you know nothing fucktard troll.

Prong blows his gasket !



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Re: Prong blows his gasket !



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I guess you don't know what a gasket is ?

You are certainly guilty as charged son.

Graham


Re: Prong blows his gasket !
On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 04:53:52 +0100, Eeyore

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  I was building racing motors in the early seventies in my teen years.
Likely before you could bray loudly, as you do here, ass.

Re: Prong blows his gasket !



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And this is relevant to exactly what ?

Graham


Re: Prong blows his gasket !
On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 21:02:03 -0700, Spurious Response

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Don't tell us let's guess..
you INVENTED the gasket..right?

Re: So what's the truth about lead-free solder ?
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I'd put it second, or lower, after HDTV. :)

--
"Liberals used to be the ones who argued that sending U.S. troops abroad
was a small price to pay to stop genocide; now they argue that genocide
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Re: So what's the truth about lead-free solder ?
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data.
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Another major issue is tin whiskers. We have hard evidence at
$WeBuildAvionics (where I am currently consluting) that the current Pb
Free / RoHS solder mixes have significant problems with growing
whiskers, leading to wonderful issues such as short circuits developing
under BGAs a few months after production. In a Flight control computer
(don't laugh - in a fly by wire environment it's the ONLY flight control
and virtually all late model airliners use it) this is Not a Good Thing
[tm].

The whole RoHS / Pb free thing is a political issue - the processes for
Pb Free use more hazardous substances than they get rid of.

Typical EU beauraucrats - unelected, overpaid and have to find something
to regulate to justify their existence. [1]

Cheers

PeteS

[1] Their existence, even from birth, might not be justifiable.

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