Service Support and Parts Supplies

It is quite understandable to not want to keep stocks of equipment that is out of warrenty.

The profits from replacements parts do not justify keeping them in stock.

Imagine if a run of 200,000 32 Inch TVs is made. Do your really think that any manufacturer wants to (or can afford to) keep

200,000 spare LOPTs in stock or 200,000 spare power switches ;-) or 200,000 spare CRTs??

Most equipment is out of date after 3 years and the cost simply cannot be justified.

JVC have this down to a fine art.

Why does each model need a unique flyback transformer or CRT? Wouldn't it be more economical for the manufacturer to use the same parts across larger parts of their product lines?

Just Another Therem> Imagine if a run of 200,000 32 Inch TVs is made. Do your really

I am not talking about parts for $50 DVD players. The point is that they likely do have parts but won't sell them. You have to ship the product to them and there is often little alternative. You may be stuck paying whatever they decide to charge. There are distributors if a vendor does not want to inventory large stocks of parts.

Maybe, maybe not. The fact that many parts distributors and manufacturers have done so for years indicates that it is possible. I don't expect any company to lose money. Reasonable policies with respect to service is all I expect. Do you dissagree? I see no need to make sweeping statements and assumptions that do not contribute positively to matter.

Many companies keep adequate supplies all the time for many parts. Obviously, it doesn't make sense to keep a lot of CRTs in stock, as it is rarely cost effective to replace them. There are also secondary markets such as distributors that take the load off of the primary vendor.

Maybe. Maybe not. I think assuming this short a life for all products is short sighted and should be discouraged. It is also simply an incorrect assumption in many cases.

JVC could provide tech support to servicers in markets where they do not have ASCs and make many of their customers happier, allow the products to be serviced more efficiently, and, perhaps, build market share. Their arrogant postition that no support will be provided except to ASCs, even when there is not one within reasonable travelling distance is absurd. People need to know this and be able to make an informed purchasing decision.

Do you have any positve contribution to make?

Leonard

Why should they? The other day you were on about how proud you are of bodging power switches on Dell equipment. Do you really expect JVC to want to be associated with you and have you doing similar to JVC equipment and getting them a bad name? They have a tightly controoled ASC system which is a main reason why JVC equipment is one of the few makers still held in such high regard. I have only ever found their service second to none.

Yes, make bodging electrical equipment as illegal as bodging gas equipment is.

Many reasons, scanning angle. Power needed by feeds from the transformer, pin layout on pcb. What mood designer is in etc etc....

Why would you suggest that a manufacturer keep a one to one parts inventory for every set that went out the factory door? That suggests that *every* part on *every set will fail and need to be replaced. No one is asking for that, (although it's reasonable to expect a company which had a known weakness in a product to stock the parts needed to fix it).

Spare parts should not be considered a profit center. If the product is reliable, only a minimum of spares should be needed. If needed, they should be available, along with details on how they should be employed.

The reasons that this is not done are that devices are cheaper to produce is serviceability is not taken into account; and the company makes more money on a replacement *device* than replacement *parts*. Related to this is the rapidity with which devices become obsolete or superseded by devices with increased capability.

It's up to the consumer to vote with their dollars for higher quality, able-to-be-serviced (and upgraded) goods.

For the most part so far, they've voted for 'cheap'.

jak

That para' should have read:

The reasons that this is not done are that devices are cheaper to produce *if* serviceability is not taken into account; and the company makes more money on a replacement *device* than replacement *parts*. Related to this is the rapidity with which devices become obsolete or superseded by devices with increased capability

(Funny how one word--indeed one letter--turns the entire sentence into a quagmire. It took me a minute to figure out what *I* originally meant.)

They should not simnply ignore the needs of their customers. They should be willing to answer simple questions. Your attacks and distortions of what I said in another thread serve no useful purpose. I run a very reputable repair shop and give our clients good value and quality service. The manufacturers that we do service for would not describe us in the terms that you have. Besides, JVC routinely rejects assisting any servicer outside their ASC network, which is very limited in some areas.

Your characterization of "bodging" equipment is silly. You refused to accept that there might be useful repairs to plastic buttons other than replacing them and mischaracterized the statements of other servicers that were very clear about their concern for safety and efficacy in repairs.

If you have nothing useful to contribute, please don't post.

Leonard

I was being pedantic. I'm famous for it!

Remember that when you write out a bill. "To supply spare parts at cost price". I'm sure the customer will be very happy and you can tell us all how to run a business that doesn't need to make a profit.

Perhaps you will lend manufacturers your crystal ball for the next production run?

Rubbish, that arugument falls over when you tell a customer that a 3 year old telly made by XYZ can't be repaired as a =A310 part can't be obtained. Would the customer buy another XYZ set?

Or as Alan Mike Sugar puts it, "If they want to pay crap prices then give them crap at crap prices".

Leonard

We perhaps have it a little better over here than you do on the original spares front. There are several very good component suppliers who will deal with most anyone - notably Charles Hyde, SEME, CPC and Grandata. If you register with them as trade, you get additional discounts. Charles Hyde's site is particularly good at letting you search on unit category + manufacturer + model number, and if the part you want is not listed, they will quote you on it and order it in for you. Interestingly, JVC is one of the ( many ) manufacturers listed by this company, so clearly they are not that bothered about who has access to their spare parts ...

The days of good tech support, even for proper dealers ( and yes, I do do work for proper dealers and account holders ) has sadly gone for many manufacturers, with a few notable exceptions. Although Pioneer, for instance, will only talk to you if you are one of their dealer service network, they are very helpful, understand exactly what you are talking about, and always know the answer to the problem. Panasonic, on the other hand, used to be very good, but now, you queue on the phone for hours, you get dropped by the phone system, if you manage to get a human, they won't talk to you about half the equipment that they sell unless you are one of their special dealers who has undertaken to repair everything from vacuum cleaners to DVD recorders.

Many of the manufacturers now have all of their service info on the web, but when you download a manual, you find that for schematics, all that is shown is the internals of a few of the chips in the unit. Very frustrating. Many technical support lines now seem to be manned by spotty youths ( presumably cheap ) who wouldn't know a soldering iron if it jumped up and bit them. You always know that ypu're in trouble when they say to you " No, there's nothing on the computer about that problem. If you find out what it is, let us know so that we can put it on the database ... " I'm sure that you find much of the same in the US. It was all so different 20 years ago .... Paper service manuals ... Oh happy days ...

Arfa

For the manufacturers...breaking even should do it. Repair centers are a different story. If supplying spares becomes too lucrative, the temptation to manufacture devices that *need* spares as a matter of course, becomes too great.

Actually it has in some cases.

Ad hominem...ignores the fact that good engineering more often than not can produce a reliable product--if that is the object--as opposed to packing in the most features at the lowest cost with no respect to reliability or servicability.

Depends on how much the XYZ set cost in the first place...depends on whether the XYZ set was actually *made* by XYZ. Very possible to change brands and 'still' get an XYZ set with a different badge. In these times of old marks with a loyal customer base being consolidated and sold to conglomerates, the average consumer has no idea who made what.

Who doesn't 'want' to pay crap prices? The fact is that too few manufacturers stress actual quality in their advertising. To our own detriment, we've been sucked in by whiz-bang features and fancy packaging.

jak

Whose "detriment"? In 1967 a colour tv here in the UK cost =A3300 the price of a small car. They were totally unreliable and once (hopefully) out of its 12 month guarentee would be a source of income for the local small repair shop 4 times a year.

These days you can buy an all singing and dancing good branded set for

200 notes and will usually get 3 years free service and possibly 5-10 years trouble free life from it. What's more the 1967 set would consume 300+ Watts and the new set under 100 Watts.

Are you admitting that you WANT manufacturers to make tv's that break down for vested interest?

Leonard Caillouet ( snipped-for-privacy@no.com) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:

On a similar note, we just got a 42" NEC PDP that was DOA (enough TLAs for everybody? :), and NEC just shipped us a new one, and don't even care about getting the old one back. Sad.

--
Jeff Rife |  
          | http://www.nabs.net/Cartoons/Dilbert/InstallVirus.gif

We have good distributors. The problem is that some manufacturers or vendors will not sell parts at all and require that they do any service or perhaps have a very few, even one outside service vendors like Decision One as the only service option. JVC supplies parts through distributors. My issue with them is the refusal to provide any tech support to non-ASCs even when they have no local. Other companies support only ASCs also, but will work with a local servicer if their service network does not extend into a certain area. Some even limit distribution if they don't have service support available and will not set up dealers unless they have service in the area.

I can understand the reality of the costs of providing good service support. We have gotten used to that. What is inexcusable IMO is refusal to sell parts or to give customers reasonable service options.

Things change. There should at least be info and parts available to field repair the stuff that is fixable. Some things will have to be done at the board level. If you can't even by the boards the customer is largely screwed.

Leonard

Parts should be profitable just like anything else.

Leonard