RCA P60928 convergence

Looking for how to get into the menu for fine adjustment of convergence on a rca P60908. Thank Ted

Reply to
Tmachcinsk
Loading thread data ...

Chassis is PTK195NT

Reply to
Tmachcinsk

Oh boy, that's a blast from the past.

First a couple of comments after I tell you - I do not remember it all. Fir st of all it is a very good point to point system. Second of all I would NE VER give this info out back when these things were being serviced still bec ause they are very stable and you usually never have to touch them unless y ou change a CRT. (or possibly the whole convergence unit due to a coolant l eak) So therefore you need to tell me WHY you need to do this. Did you chan ge a CRT ? Did you transplant a projection box into a different cabinet ? D id you change te convergence module ?

WARNING - these things save settings on the fly. If you discover it is not responding correctly aqnd you did something wrong there is NO going back ev en if you unplug it. Unnastand ?? If it does not respond correctly that mak es it harder to fix because as you do the actual repair you do not know if you have it fixed or not.

And to even do it you need an original remote or a select few universals (R CA from that era) or you simply cannot. newer RCA remotes even for the olde r newer ones won't do it.

Oh, and one other reason to do it is if you replaced the flyback with an af termarket part, they have shorter retrace time and affect geometry, specifi cally the horizontal width. In that case, stay out of the convergence and j ust adjust the chassis width until the vertical lines converge at the sides . That is easier even though you have a different problem - the main servic e menu is not labelled. You need the list of parameters. Otherwise you are liable to change something you do not want to change. I don't remember how many there are but there are enough not to memorize. I could determine it o the fly, by adjusting each one and returning it to its original parameter, which they give you on the right side. On the left you get "P:_" which is the parameter, on the right you get "V:_" which is the numerical value of t hat parameter. Those also save on the fly.

Tell e why you need to adjust this and I will search my PC for the files, i f I even still have them. But I can retrieve quite a bit from memory.

Those things are a fantastic design, if they had not been obsoleted by flat screens ad those eljunko LCDs and DLPs they would be worth putting money i nto today. Their only big problem is the power supply on the main chassis. When the main chopper blows it takes out so many (SMD)parts it is simply no t worth it. I have actually cut the PC board in that area and inserted a PS from another unit, which is actually not all that hard but has to be done right. You have to know where to cut.

So, what is the symptom/situation ?

Reply to
jurb6006

Reply to
ohger1s

n a rca P60908. Thank Ted

I have the procedure, but I don't like folks running around in the service menu. This TV was very well designed but one parameter bumped too far and out she goes.

Later versions of the 195 had a limited point to point convergence in the c ustomer menu. This was very similar to the service menu procedure but woul dn't allow you to play deep in the corners in order to avoid overstressing the conv outputs. See if your model has this.

Reply to
ohger1s

:

on a rca P60908. Thank Ted

e menu. This TV was very well designed but one parameter bumped too far an d out she goes.

customer menu. This was very similar to the service menu procedure but wo uldn't allow you to play deep in the corners in order to avoid overstressin g the conv outputs. See if your model has this.

I still want to know why he wants in there. There are only so many reasons, as you most probably know. they do not just drift. Is it just one color ? If so, beat around the convergence board for loose connections and if anyth ing moves, solder it. If it is two colors, look into the main chassis geome try. If it is all three colors then does it have pincushion distortion ? I so the convergence PS is not starting and that is because of a rectifier an d filter on there, and many times that failure is a coolant leak. Sometimes though it is just a filter cap. That source runs off the flyback IIRC and that is the only place they could have tapped it off because the main SMPS runs all the time.

I agree, no divulging such information unless they demonstrate they are eit her a tech that understands not to try to adjust out a problem or at least someone who can comprehend it. And I still want a reason why. THEY DO NOT D RIFT !

Actually if you remember, NAP eventually gave the customer much more multip oint convergence control. And they would try to adjust out faults related t o the STKs, some of them did't just short out. (remember those ? you just u nplug that one plug and hear HV and you knew what it was)But after the repa ir I saw all kinds of things people did, fortunately they provided a factor y restore and that usually fixed whatever damage they did to the data. Thos e RCAs had no such feature. Let that be a lesson in trepidation to this per son. You can't just come in here asking for that. I do not prefer to help p eople screw things up.

Know what you NEVER want to tell anyone, even a competent tech ? How to get into a Pioneer. Those menus are so unfriendly I left them alone whenever p ossible. I fact I left them all alone if possible. None of this stuff drift s. Greyscale maybe but still on some units forget even that.

Reply to
jurb6006

Thank you for your concern. You are correct the picture convergence is actu ally very good. Just off a very little bit at the very bottom of the screen . Not the end of the world but would be nice to make it perfect seems to be just the bottom corners off a little bit. The v regulator on the power sup ply for the convergence board was replaced by me about 4 years ago. That ma y be why it is off. Thanks Ted

Reply to
Tmachcinsk

n a rca P60908. Thank Ted

Also as far as experience I am a arcade game tech I have done convergence a nd tube swaps on many monitors and know enough to mark the rings before I s tart. I do not have much experience with projections and the electronic adj ustment. I would start by making a single adjustment before going crazy. I don't know what the adjustment screen looks like at all. If there are value s on screen I would wright them down before changing anything. I am not loo king to screw anything up that's why I am here getting advice from you guys . Thanks Ted

Reply to
Tmachcinsk

On Thursday, November 24, 2016 at 9:42:06 PM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

:

on a rca P60908. Thank Ted

and tube swaps on many monitors and know enough to mark the rings before I start. I do not have much experience with projections and the electronic a djustment. I would start by making a single adjustment before going crazy. I don't know what the adjustment screen looks like at all. If there are val ues on screen I would wright them down before changing anything. I am not l ooking to screw anything up that's why I am here getting advice from you gu ys. Thanks Ted

You still haven't described the error or indicated why there is an error. T his is paramount. The convergence amps are like transconductance amps and t heir gain is set by precision resistors. Actually not even precision, but t hey are when you go to replace them.

There are no values to write down in the convergence. The lines move IF the amps are working. If they are not working the values change but you don't see it. That means that later, unless you literally took a picture of the e rror you could fix the amp and not know it is fixed. I shit to not.

On the NAP sets they gave the customer the access to do multipoint converge nce and that can play hell on doing the actual troubleshooting. Luckily the included a "factory reset". There is no such thing on the PCA. Even if you unplug it the data are changed. Some sets have values and have normal old style controls but they're digital, like horizontal linearity, vertical bow and all that, and many of them do have a value (number) associated with ea ch parameter. No so with the RCA, it is an advanced point to point system.

You shouldn't mark the rings, you should know how to set the rings. I wish you would describe the error and what all was done. If you changed the flyb ack you NEED not to set anything in the convergence because when the vertic al lines converge at the sides you have set the width correctly. That is a totally different menu.

Fukit, since you are diligent I guess I will give you enough rope to hang y ourself, to the best of my recollection. Remember you need the ORIGINAL rem ote. If you don't have that you are screwed anyway.

Lessee, how was that, on the set, not remote, hold down the menu button and hit power and then vol+. Release. With the vol+ advance the number on the right to 80 and then hit the ch+. This will bring up the test pattern. You will notice in the middle one color missing for the crosshairs, that is the adjustment point. Green is always the reference and is not generally set. If the crosshairs are magenta, you are adjusting red, if cyan you are adjus ting blue.

On the remote the numbers 2,4,6,8 move the adjustment point, the arrow keys by the menu down below do the actual adjustment. And as I said before, it is saved IMMEDIATELY. If any point on the screen will not adjust STOP RIGHT THERE. Just get out the scope and troubleshoot. Don't even try to get it b ack. Your odds of that are about the same as Donald Trump winning the gold medal in Women's gymnastics.

If you have changed the flyback to an aftermarket and the vertical lines on the sides do not converge you need the main service menu, which is the sam e process but you go to V76 instead of V80. Now THAT you can do without the remote, plus there are values. You can adjust each one and return them to their original values until you find horizontal width. You will not have th e internal test pattern though but you can use an external generator or a f ew other things. You can use preview guide from the cable box with the colo r turned all the way down for example. If you are in the V76 menu, DO NOT g o up into the hundreds, those are tuner alignment and if you screw that up there is almost no way back. I can do it but I was one of the best on my da y. When they offer you $30 an hour and to drive 96 miles a day to pick you up and drop you off every day that says something. So don't think something like that is easy. It is not that hard if you have what they call a "TAG" generator, but doing without is not all that easy. I could also align the r ecording circuits in a VCR without fancy equipment, the other tech saw how I did it and said "This guy is a genius". With a scope and a meter I can al ign almost anything except I can't figure out a way to set the separation o n FM stereo without a real generator. But if I have to now all I need it on e of those modulators they have so you can play your portable CD or MP3 pla yer in a car that has no jacks for it.

So anyway, you have your rope. You know how to make the noose. I still high ly recommend you describe the convergence error in detail. You could have a coolant leak which will destroy what may well be one of the best units RCA ever made. It leaks on the boards and after months becomes conductive and corrosive and the unit usually is unrepairable at any price.

I got the big bucks because I know what the f*ck I am doing. I remember one Mitsubishi came in with bad convergence and I did not really investigate e nough. It wasn't that bad so I tried adjusting it and it would not. STOP I said to myself. Come to find out it was a broken mirror !

Which is another thing, on a sixty inch the mirror is usually retractable f or moving. Is it in it's proper running position ? Check into the mounting of that before getting into the software.

You are not just dealing with electronics here, it is also optical. It is a mazing how advanced they got before LCD technology blew it all off. If you' ve ever had a CRT out you see this ultraconcave glass in front of it which makes the coolant into a lens. It allows the lens to gather much more light from the CRT. The CRT puts out omnidirectionally, this concentrates it and improves efficiency quite a bit.

Mostly useless knowledge now.

So there's your rope. Don't come back whining that you hung yourself, you h ave been warned.

Reply to
jurb6006

Thank you for the info. I do know how to adjust the convergence rings not a n expert but fairly good at it. It is always nice to have a place to go bac k to if things go wrong. As I stated in the other post The convergence is o ff very slightly in the very bottom of the screen. I also stated I replaced the power supply for the convergence board, I may have alse replaced the f lyback at one point don't recall for sure at this point. I have no desire to screw up my very nice tv that is why I have come here to talk to the rig ht people first before I do anything. Even if I end up not making the adjus tments I still love getting the knowledge. Thanks again Ted

Reply to
Tmachcinsk

There is *NO* need to touch those rings unless a CRT or yoke was replaced. Doing so will most likely throw off the DC idle current enough to cause the convergence outputs to run hot.

Reply to
ohger1s

I need help

Reply to
jamesriico

Minister, Rabbi, or Priest would be my best advice..

Reply to
John-Del

If its that bad - you probably need to sort out the purity first.

I didn't think RCA PIL tubes still had those.

Reply to
Ian Field

What is a PIL tube ?

The PTK series is rear projection, if a regular CRT it is CTC. The CTCs in regular direct views do not have any convergence in the menus, it is all do ne with rings and actually sometimes they don't even have them. They have a magnetic strip. It can be adjusted but is hard to get perfect. They also h ad bonded yokes so convergence adjustments were limited as well.

At the factory it was adjusted before the glue dried on the yoke, and they probably had a selection of different magnetic strips. I am also pretty sur e they were adjusted by machine.

Reply to
jurb6006

May have been a copyright dodge to avoid the Trinitron.

It was an early example of inline guns to avoid the hard work of purity and convergence with delta gun layouts.

The phosphors were probably stripes like the Trinitron, but I think the shadowmask had an array of staggered slots - the Trinitron shadowmask is more like a Venetian blind.

I vaguely remember the RCA PIL tubes having bonded yokes, there may have been purity rings on the tube neck, but purity was largely factory set.

Adjustment was much simpler with PIL tubes, and mostly done by careful magnetics design.

A degaussing wand might help - but keep it away from the tube neck.

Reply to
Ian Field

Perhaps, but I think most of Sony's engineering efforts were to avoid every one else's patents. Their 70s power supply designs are a Rube Goldberg's ni ghtmare wrapped in a chain saw wielding mass murderer's warm embrace. They weren't notably efficient or particularly well regulating, so my guess is that they were building a unique design with no patents (and really, who wo uld patent such an abortion?).

I remember when NYC was reducing power during the 70s in an "energy saving" attempt. Well Sony power supplies committed harakiri at not much less tha n 100VAC, and lots of Trinitrons were blowing up during the brown-outs.

As far as in-line tubes, I remember seeing mid 60s GE Portacolor TVs use in

-lines although I believe they were of delta configuration. Decent tube, e asy to converge and outlasted the TV but the TV itself was a toilet. Terri ble picture that would feature not only changing black level and AGC action but even change in color temperature as the brightness was advanced, and t his was at the demodulators, not the CRT.

The Trinitron when it worked right produced some fabulous images, but I thi nk the tube was very finicky and required far more stringent manufacturing tolerances than the typical tube, hence the cost. Give it a small nudge an d the shadow mask would shift or one of the wires would snap. Early tubes h ad the coaxial second anode connector and those tubes would short internall y.

Don't miss those days. (much)

Reply to
John-Del

Its one or the other - delta is a bundle of guns and inline is exactly what it says.

Reply to
Ian Field

rm

g,

ch

e

at

Yep, misspoke. The porta-color used an inline gun but retained the round R CA style shadow mask. When viewed up close, the round phoshpors looked a lo t like the earlier delta. Later in-lines (including the Trini) used the re ctangular slots that were quite obvious even when the TV was off.

Reply to
John-Del

warm

ing,

s

much

use

what

RCA style shadow mask. When viewed up close, the round phoshpors looked a lot like the earlier delta. Later in-lines (including the Trini) used the rectangular slots that were quite obvious even when the TV was off.

It is totally possible to use inline guns with a triad type shadow mask. In fact it holds its shape better than the slit type mask. Plus, with such po or resolution (screen pitch) it looked better.

Those GEs with the AA and AB chassis' were not something I was in love with to say the least. Had to resolder all those feedthroughs. Plus they used a wafer tuner which is harder to clean properly.

I did make some money fixing them but you can't charge that much on those e lcheapo sets.

Actually though, it was very rare that I had to replace any parts in them.

Reply to
jurb6006

ElectronDepot website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.