Note: I did electronic service work for many years. Note: This DVD recorder does NOT use a computer. It has AV inputs and outputs plus a built in TV type tuner.
My Panasonic DVD Recorder DMR-ES20, when plugged in (AC) takes a very long time to initialize (rolling "o"s) before the flashing "12:00A" appears. Also, when I turn it on, "Hello" is on for a long time (not as long as "rolling o") before I can use the recorder.
I checked every electrolytic capacitor in the power supply, plus some others (ESR and capacitance test). I replaced a few that were in early stages of going bad, but that did not fix the problem.
Has anyone fixed this problem (same model with same issue)?
On Wednesday, January 25, 2017 at 11:05:25 AM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@verizon.net
a) Whether or not there is a "computer" (formal microprocessor) involved, t here is still a great deal of RAM involved in the AD/DA process. So, try a hard reboot: Unplug the machine while ON (but no disc and not playing). All ow it to sit for at least an hour. Activate the "ON" switch for a full 30 s econds while still unplugged. Wait another full minute. Plug back in and re start.
b) If that does not help, replace any caps in the P/S anyway whether they p ass the various (low voltage) tests applied. One of the most significant mi stakes amateurs make with electrolytic caps is assuming a higher-than-expec ted reading as "good". Many times, it is more indicative the cap slowly goi ng open.
c) And, once you get it where you want it to be, refrain from unplugging it - or you may find yourself in the position of having to do a hard reboot e very time.
ASIDE and RANT WARNING: Guys and gals, let's look at so-called Vampire devi ces, what they really mean and what cold-starts also really mean.
Definitions: A Vampire Device is any device that continues to draw power wh ile otherwise inert - not doing any sort of work as when active. So, not el ectric clocks, items with a clock function that power other than that clock and similar. VCRs and DVRs are often considered to be types of vampire dev ices. I have some very vintage Dynaco and AR devices that keep a low curren t on the main filter caps when not powered up - so as to avoid turn-on thum ps and to keep those capacitors 'wet'. All those things. Big Flat-Screen te levisions are also often considered vampires.
What we do not 'get' is that many of these devices 'learn' small things tha t are wiped out with complete disconnection. Or, internal parts are subject to heavy inrush currents when power is re-applied. TVs lose all their sett ings and default to "display mode" (Full bright, full color, full everythin g) when power is re-applied. Some tuners lose all their presets, and so on and so forth.
Now do the math: We, by direct measurement, have a vampire load of about 15 watts in our house. That is everything from the microwave clock to the wal l-warts to the television and more. Power is $0.14/kwh (US dollars).
(15 x 24 x 7 x 365) = 919,800 = total watts.
919,800/1000 = 919.8 kilowatt hours
919.8 x 0.14 = $128.77 per year
128.77/12 = $10.73 per month
10.73/30 = $0.36 per day
For which I get:
No preset reprogramming. No TV settings reprogramming x 2 No microwave/stove reprogramming No surges to any wall-wart devices (they all have switching wall-warts. The y draw no current when not actually working). All it takes is one device to be damaged by a surge in any case to wipe out any savings.
Sure, from the same person lecturing on efficient washing machines. But thi s is apples (how something is designed to operate) and oranges (replacing o ne set of means-and-methods with another set of means-and-methods). If the goal is to clean fabrics with water and chemicals, it only makes sense to d o so with the least amount of water and chemicals as is practical. If the g oal is to enjoy electronic devices at their full functionality, then it onl y makes sense to provide the means to that end. One makes a deliberate choi ce to use those functions, so one pays the price.
And not to be elitist or anything of the sort: $128.77 may be significant a nd serious money to some. And to some few of those, not sustainable against other demands. For those the decision will be different in how they manage such issues. But it is also doubtful that they will have two hobbies that impact such, and have all the other artifacts that raise our vampire load a s high as it is. And to be perfectly snarky, I can balance that $0.36/day a gainst the 15,000 gallons of water I am saving every year over that old May tag.....
a) Whether or not there is a "computer" (formal microprocessor) involved, there is still a great deal of RAM involved in the AD/DA process. So, try a hard reboot: Unplug the machine while ON (but no disc and not playing). Allow it to sit for at least an hour. Activate the "ON" switch for a full 30 seconds while still unplugged. Wait another full minute. Plug back in and restart.
b) If that does not help, replace any caps in the P/S anyway whether they pass the various (low voltage) tests applied. One of the most significant mistakes amateurs make with electrolytic caps is assuming a higher-than-expected reading as "good". Many times, it is more indicative the cap slowly going open.
c) And, once you get it where you want it to be, refrain from unplugging it - or you may find yourself in the position of having to do a hard reboot every time.
ASIDE and RANT WARNING: Guys and gals, let's look at so-called Vampire devices, what they really mean and what cold-starts also really mean.
Definitions: A Vampire Device is any device that continues to draw power while otherwise inert - not doing any sort of work as when active. So, not electric clocks, items with a clock function that power other than that clock and similar. VCRs and DVRs are often considered to be types of vampire devices. I have some very vintage Dynaco and AR devices that keep a low current on the main filter caps when not powered up - so as to avoid turn-on thumps and to keep those capacitors 'wet'. All those things. Big Flat-Screen televisions are also often considered vampires.
What we do not 'get' is that many of these devices 'learn' small things that are wiped out with complete disconnection. Or, internal parts are subject to heavy inrush currents when power is re-applied. TVs lose all their settings and default to "display mode" (Full bright, full color, full everything) when power is re-applied. Some tuners lose all their presets, and so on and so forth.
Now do the math: We, by direct measurement, have a vampire load of about 15 watts in our house. That is everything from the microwave clock to the wall-warts to the television and more. Power is $0.14/kwh (US dollars).
(15 x 24 x 7 x 365) = 919,800 = total watts.
919,800/1000 = 919.8 kilowatt hours
919.8 x 0.14 = $128.77 per year
128.77/12 = $10.73 per month
10.73/30 = $0.36 per day
For which I get:
No preset reprogramming. No TV settings reprogramming x 2 No microwave/stove reprogramming No surges to any wall-wart devices (they all have switching wall-warts. They draw no current when not actually working). All it takes is one device to be damaged by a surge in any case to wipe out any savings.
Sure, from the same person lecturing on efficient washing machines. But this is apples (how something is designed to operate) and oranges (replacing one set of means-and-methods with another set of means-and-methods). If the goal is to clean fabrics with water and chemicals, it only makes sense to do so with the least amount of water and chemicals as is practical. If the goal is to enjoy electronic devices at their full functionality, then it only makes sense to provide the means to that end. One makes a deliberate choice to use those functions, so one pays the price.
And not to be elitist or anything of the sort: $128.77 may be significant and serious money to some. And to some few of those, not sustainable against other demands. For those the decision will be different in how they manage such issues. But it is also doubtful that they will have two hobbies that impact such, and have all the other artifacts that raise our vampire load as high as it is. And to be perfectly snarky, I can balance that $0.36/day against the 15,000 gallons of water I am saving every year over that old Maytag.....
I had this happen to other similar devices and it was some I2C bus device not responding. Does it fully work when it starts? Do tuner, modulator, all inputs/outputs, functions, etc work as expected?
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess this Panasonic is new to *you*. I remember these unit to be extraordinary. no-painfully slow to boot and non intuitive in operations.
This is an early machine that uses a comparatively slow processor and memory, and requires a lot of software to run. Probably normal.
That's probably a worthwhile precaution anyway whether they need it or not - a few of the PSU electrolytics are capable of letting the magic smoke out with a fair bit of enthusiasm!
In the absence of an ESR meter - any bulged or sunken tops should be investigated. Dried out caps can feel noticeably light.
In a PSU; bad caps can get hot - deteriorated plastic sleeve can be a clue.
I have a continuity tester/voltage indicator that causes both charge and discharge blips in the LEDs. I used that before I got an ESR meter. With a bit of practice you can tell a fair bit by how the cap charges and discharges through the LEDs. Not as good - but you can get away with an inverse parallel pair of LEDs, a battery, a current limiting resistor and a push button.
An ESR meter takes the uncertainty out of it - I use the Peak Atlas instrument. Its not cheap - but could pay for itself quicker than you think.
I also use the Peak Atlas device. Paid for itself the day it arrived (under the Tree on Christmas Day) with the smile on the kids' faces when I opened it - and many times since in actual use.
On ebay there are devices like the Peak that are not in a case but are functional. They are only about $ 20. They do not rip you off like Peak in that one device will check the transistors and capacitors (active and passive components). I have one and put it in a case. I works very well.
It acquits itself quite nicely against some pretty high-end meters. So on t he "pro" side:
a) it is accurate against some industry-standard devices. b) it is self-contained and serves both to measure capacitance and ESR. Doi ng two things well rather than many things less well. c) it will discharge capacitors without damage. d) it is NOT made in China. e) it will measure in-circuit and out.
I keep four meters on the bench:
B&K LCR meter Fluke "true RMS" VOM Peak Atlas Transistor/diode checker
And the aforementioned meter. In my traveling kit (Kutztown twice per year, and when 'in the field', I keep a very vintage Radio Shack Japanese VOM, a nd the AnaTek ESR meter.
Paying a premium for my meters to get reliability, predictability and funct ion is by no means any sort of rip-off. I have been known to pay $40 for a pair of box-joint Linesman Pliers (ChannelLock) rather than $8.99 for a sim ilar-in-size piece of Chinese Junque.
Good (new) tools are not cheap. Cheap (new) tools are not good.
You should have looked at this persons comparison:
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The ripoff by Peak is that they could have combined two devices in one meter as it is mostly software. They chose to only enable passive or active devices to they can sell two boxes and double the profit.
I agree it is good to pay more for a quality instrument, but lately there seems to be some very good quality items comming from China, especially if you look at the price of them. I just bought a 200 MHz scope and a function generator made in China from a company in the US. They work very well.
Bein a ham radio operator I have bought some of the trnsceivers from China and have contacts with many more. Some of them work very well and a lot less then the Japan vesions. There are also some junk copies of the Japan radios that do not work well at all.
If it had electrolytics going bad I would expect it to boot faster when warm after it has been running for a while. If it doesn't it could still be a failed electrolytic whose function is not critical for operation, sometimes such capacitor will have a bulged top or leak.
Dontchu hate coincidences like that? Its almost feels like the factory snuck over to your place and fixed it right after you posted. In any event, did you unplug the Panasonic before plugged it back in?
A few Radio Shacks are still open. I don't get into low or high voltage work much, but in electrical class, I remember briefly carrying around those oscilloscopes or those light-blue suitcase-looking test beds with all of those jacks and l.e.d.'s.
I wonder if pocket oscilloscopes now come with test meters and test recievers for resistance measuring.
A Freeview PVR I had to recap the PSU failed again after about a year - it had been flaky coming out of standby and eventually wouldn't at all. It turned out to be a small electrolytic I'd missed the first time. It was on a low current always on 12V rail.
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