Old wiring repair youtubes

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I got a switch that needs replacing but I'm afraid because the last time I
replaced it the wires were old and the tips broke and i had almost no wire to
use. An electrician chum told me about scothclock and I got two spools of
wire (I didn't last time) but I'd like to see some videos to build up my
confidence.  BION last time I was so lost, it was late at night and I prayed
for half an hour before I got it to work. Much obliged

                    - = -
     Vasos Panagiotopoulos, Columbia'81+, Reagan, Mozart, Pindus
  blog: panix.com/~vjp2/ruminatn.htm - = - web:  panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htm
   facebook.com/vasjpan2 - linkedin.com/in/vasjpan02 -  biostrategist.com
  ---{Nothing herein constitutes advice.  Everything fully disclaimed.}---





Re: Old wiring repair youtubes
On Monday, 27 November 2017 21:45:29 UTC, snipped-for-privacy@at.biostrategist.dot.dot.com  wrote:
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If you tell us what you're talking about maybe we can help. Then what sort of wire etc.

Re: Old wiring repair youtubes
On 11/27/2017 1:45 PM, snipped-for-privacy@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com wrote:
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmDj6i4pGDQ


Re: Old wiring repair youtubes
says...
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There are 2 connectors I often use instead of wire nuts.  I am thinking  
schthclock is a brand name for wire nuts.  One is like in the video  
where you just push in the wires.  Brand Wall nuts.

The other is WAGO.  YOu pull up on  a lever, put the wire in and push  
the lever back down.  They are easy to reuse if you ever need to.


Re: Old wiring repair youtubes


"Ralph Mowery"  wrote in message  

says...
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There are 2 connectors I often use instead of wire nuts.  I am thinking
schthclock is a brand name for wire nuts.  One is like in the video
where you just push in the wires.  Brand Wall nuts.

The other is WAGO.  YOu pull up on  a lever, put the wire in and push
the lever back down.  They are easy to reuse if you ever need to.



********************************************

I suspect the OP is referring to these.
In the UK they are commonly known as Choc Block connectors.

http://cpc.farnell.com/hellermanntyton/cs15nt/terminal-block-polyethylene-16a/dp/CB15474?CMP=KNC-GUK-CPC-GEN-SHOPPING-HELLERMANNTYTON-CB15474&gross_price=true&mckv=swQRURloc_dc |pcrid|72935675177|kword||match||plid||pid|CB15474|&gclidEA%IaIQobChMIg5WglMbk1wIVzLztCh05NQvYEAQYASABEgLGEfD_BwE


Gareth.


Re: Old wiring repair youtubes
On Wednesday, November 29, 2017 at 2:48:53 PM UTC-5, Gareth Magennis wrote:

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-16a/dp/CB15474?CMP=KNC-GUK-CPC-GEN-SHOPPING-HELLERMANNTYTON-CB15474&gros
s_price=true&mckv=swQRURloc_dc|pcrid|72935675177|kword||match||plid||pi
d|CB15474|&gclidEA%IaIQobChMIg5WglMbk1wIVzLztCh05NQvYEAQYASABEgLGEfD_BwE
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They emphatically *DO NOT* meet the US NEC code for branch-wiring - and wou
ld be quite dangerous in such an application. Without seeing the actual sit
uation in front of my eyes, I would not dare to opine on a solution. But, i
f it were my house, and I could not splice safely in the wall-box, I would  
bite the bullet and go back to the nearest box or back to the panel. It is  
*JUST NOT WORTH THE RISK* to do any less. I worked my way through school as
 an electrician,  mostly doing old-work repairs and installations in an old
 city. A good number of the  houses I worked in were first wired within a c
ouple of years of 1913, and I learned the are of the "fish wire" from two e
xperts.  

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

Re: Old wiring repair youtubes
On Wednesday, 29 November 2017 20:20:11 UTC, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com  wrote:
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e:
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ne-16a/dp/CB15474?CMP=KNC-GUK-CPC-GEN-SHOPPING-HELLERMANNTYTON-CB15474&gr
oss_price=true&mckv=swQRURloc_dc|pcrid|72935675177|kword||match||plid||
pid|CB15474|&gclidEA%IaIQobChMIg5WglMbk1wIVzLztCh05NQvYEAQYASABEgLGEfD_Bw
E
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ould be quite dangerous in such an application.

That's just funny. In UK we use those choc blocks almost entirely, and wire
 nuts are banned here. We have less electrical fires then the US as a resul
t.


NT

Re: Old wiring repair youtubes
A lot of people don't know the correct way to use a wire nut. Simply lining
 up 2 or 3 or 4 wires and twisting the nut on will inevitably result in one
 or more of the wires not getting tied in tightly, and there is the potenti
al for it to push out, or worse, heat up in use.

The correct way is to twist the wires together, and then take a dikes and c
ut off at least 1/4" of wire at the end of the twist, preferably at an angl
e. This forces the wires together and creates a gas tight zone at the cut.

Then twist the wire nut on. Using the correct size wire nut is critical. To
o small a wire nut obviously won't twist on, or will leave bare wire expose
d. But too large creates the possibility that the wires are not getting com
pressed in the nut, no "bite" in the threads, and a likelihood that the nut
 will work loose when the wires are tucked into the box.

It's not rocket science, but doing it right is critical in preventing fires
.

Re: Old wiring repair youtubes
On Wednesday, November 29, 2017 at 3:30:48 PM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrot
e:
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ote:
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lene-16a/dp/CB15474?CMP=KNC-GUK-CPC-GEN-SHOPPING-HELLERMANNTYTON-CB15474&
gross_price=true&mckv=swQRURloc_dc|pcrid|72935675177|kword||match||plid
||pid|CB15474|&gclidEA%IaIQobChMIg5WglMbk1wIVzLztCh05NQvYEAQYASABEgLGEfD_
BwE
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 would be quite dangerous in such an application.
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re nuts are banned here. We have less electrical fires then the US as a res
ult.
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Context?  If we're talking total numbers that wouldn't surprise me as the U
.S. is far larger than the U.K.  If you mean less electrical fires by perce
ntile I'd like to see a citation.

Re: Old wiring repair youtubes
On Wednesday, 29 November 2017 20:54:37 UTC, John-Del  wrote:
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wrote:
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hylene-16a/dp/CB15474?CMP=KNC-GUK-CPC-GEN-SHOPPING-HELLERMANNTYTON-CB1547
4&gross_price=true&mckv=swQRURloc_dc|pcrid|72935675177|kword||match||pl
id||pid|CB15474|&gclidEA%IaIQobChMIg5WglMbk1wIVzLztCh05NQvYEAQYASABEgLGEf
D_BwE
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nd would be quite dangerous in such an application.
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wire nuts are banned here. We have less electrical fires then the US as a r
esult.
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 U.S. is far larger than the U.K.  If you mean less electrical fires by per
centile I'd like to see a citation.

Percentage. It was a while ago I looked it up, US is known for its worse st
ats on infant mortality and electrical fires. It's way too late to look the
m up right now.


NT

Re: Old wiring repair youtubes
On Wednesday, November 29, 2017 at 10:10:56 PM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wro
te:
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s wrote:
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ethylene-16a/dp/CB15474?CMP=KNC-GUK-CPC-GEN-SHOPPING-HELLERMANNTYTON-CB15
474&gross_price=true&mckv=swQRURloc_dc|pcrid|72935675177|kword||match||
plid||pid|CB15474|&gclidEA%IaIQobChMIg5WglMbk1wIVzLztCh05NQvYEAQYASABEgLG
EfD_BwE
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 and would be quite dangerous in such an application.
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d wire nuts are banned here. We have less electrical fires then the US as a
 result.
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he U.S. is far larger than the U.K.  If you mean less electrical fires by p
ercentile I'd like to see a citation.
Quoted text here. Click to load it
stats on infant mortality and electrical fires. It's way too late to look t
hem up right now.
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Well, I'm too lazy to look it up myself...

Assuming the citation was correct, there could be a of factors.  The first  
is one Peter pointed out; the U.S. was wired early and without codes.  A lo
t of that wiring still exists and even if thoughtfully wired, is still a hu
ndred years old.  Back in the 80s we rented a store front that was still ca
p and tube wiring from the 1920s, and the new owner wanted us to sign a tri
ple net lease (which means we were liable for any repairs to this late 19th
 century building, including the wiring and plumbing).  Both still were ser
viceable but we left and bought our own building.

The large city closest to me uses special equipment for detecting electrica
l fires.  The city includes a large percentage of homes that were built in  
the late 1800s through the early 1900s.  The fire department has infrared s
canners that they use to detect heat behind walls during a survey of old wi
ring.

Second thought is the definition of electrical fire and the cause.  I don't
 know if there's an international watchdog commission that compiles the dat
a or if the data is submitted by each country independently.  Perhaps the d
efinition of what exactly constitutes electrical fires.

I don't know about the U.K., but we have a lot of dullards here that run ex
tension cords to high wattage electrical supplemental heaters for when they
 can't afford a tank of heating oil or propane.  So I wonder how many of th
ese failures are from external misuse or internal infrastructure failures.  
 I can't tell you how many times I've pointed out worn out wall sockets or  
melted three way extension cords that were ready to burst into flames to cu
stomers when doing home service.

Re: Old wiring repair youtubes
On Thursday, 30 November 2017 13:14:06 UTC, John-Del  wrote:
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nis wrote:
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lyethylene-16a/dp/CB15474?CMP=KNC-GUK-CPC-GEN-SHOPPING-HELLERMANNTYTON-CB
15474&gross_price=true&mckv=swQRURloc_dc|pcrid|72935675177|kword||match
||plid||pid|CB15474|&gclidEA%IaIQobChMIg5WglMbk1wIVzLztCh05NQvYEAQYASABEg
LGEfD_BwE
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 - and would be quite dangerous in such an application.
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and wire nuts are banned here. We have less electrical fires then the US as
 a result.
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 the U.S. is far larger than the U.K.  If you mean less electrical fires by
 percentile I'd like to see a citation.
Quoted text here. Click to load it
e stats on infant mortality and electrical fires. It's way too late to look
 them up right now.
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t is one Peter pointed out; the U.S. was wired early and without codes.  A  
lot of that wiring still exists and even if thoughtfully wired, is still a  
hundred years old.  Back in the 80s we rented a store front that was still  
cap and tube wiring from the 1920s, and the new owner wanted us to sign a t
riple net lease (which means we were liable for any repairs to this late 19
th century building, including the wiring and plumbing).  Both still were s
erviceable but we left and bought our own building.

Our pre-50s wiring has pretty much all gone now. The rubber used was eviden
tly inferior to the US stuff, when encountering 50s wiring in the 80s it wa
s always in a terrible state with a lot of the rubber insulation fallen off
. K&T may be ancient but from what I've seen (on the net) of it it appears  
to be basically sound in design. Our pre-55 wiring generally wasn't.


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cal fires.  The city includes a large percentage of homes that were built i
n the late 1800s through the early 1900s.  The fire department has infrared
 scanners that they use to detect heat behind walls during a survey of old  
wiring.

We don't have that, but testing resistances of circuits accomplishes much t
he same thing. Also the police here do infra red flyovers and sometimes pic
k up on excess heat. I assume they're looking for drug farms.

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't know if there's an international watchdog commission that compiles the d
ata or if the data is submitted by each country independently.  Perhaps the
 definition of what exactly constitutes electrical fires.
Quoted text here. Click to load it
extension cords to high wattage electrical supplemental heaters for when th
ey can't afford a tank of heating oil or propane.  So I wonder how many of  
these failures are from external misuse or internal infrastructure failures
.  I can't tell you how many times I've pointed out worn out wall sockets o
r melted three way extension cords that were ready to burst into flames to  
customers when doing home service.

From what I've seen of US wiring the reason seems pretty obvious, most of i
t is done to lower safety standards than here. The only odd thing is that A
mericans seem unable to accept that. Typically they lapse into being abusiv
e when such things are pointed out.


NT

Re: Old wiring repair youtubes
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re nuts are banned here. We have less electrical fires then the US as a res
ult.

That is what happens when one is a first-user of a technology. Electrical w
iring from central (regulated) suppliers on a common scheme began in the US
 in/around 1911, with major cities joining in the grid through the next ten
 years or so. Rural Electrification began in earnest in 1936 and by 1940, t
he 'grid' was available to the entire US.  

Regulated mains power to a common standard was not made available to the co
mmon people in GB until starting in 1926, making GB about 15 years behind t
he US, and much slower on the uptake moving forward. Pretty much everything
 done in the US was brand-new for the first 15 years or so - and the rest o
f the world learned from it.  

Our house was built in 1890, first wired in 1913, and substantially expande
d (both the house and the wiring) in 1928. In 2005, the main service was up
graded and grounded wiring extended throughout the house to all branch-circ
uits and GFCI devices installed in all 'wet' locations - must have cost a f
ortune!  

Squigs - as I leaned to call the through-wire devices you are referring to  
- are fine if they can be screwed down as a terminal strip (and they are ap
proved in that application. But as individual joints, they are quite danger
ous. Wire nuts, properly installed, are far tougher and make a far better c
onnection than a single screw bearing on two conductors in a small opening.
 Twist together first (good mechanical connection), cut square or on a very
 slight angle, then install the correctly sized wire-nut, very tight. I hav
e done (easily) tens of thousands, and I carried at least five different si
zes on any given job. Were signal-wiring involved, that would be four more  
sizes.  

Terry: I use linesman's pliers (this one:  https://www.amazon.com/Channello
ck-349-Premium-Wiremaster-Linesman/dp/B00004SBD5 ) and I still have the pai
r I purchased in 1970 at age 18. Dikes, not so much.  

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

Re: Old wiring repair youtubes
Agreed -- it's a better tool (and a better term) and I have several aged pa
irs myself. Dikes of course implies a cutter-only tool and I usually use mi
ne because sadly, most of the cutting edges in my linesman pliers are badly
 chewed up from misuse (mostly not by me).  

Terry


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lock-349-Premium-Wiremaster-Linesman/dp/B00004SBD5 ) and I still have the p
air I purchased in 1970 at age 18. Dikes, not so much.  
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Re: Old wiring repair youtubes
On 30/11/17 08:50, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:
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I keep meaning to replace mine, bought in 1975,
which have a large divet out of the cutters from
where my father cut through a live 240V 15A cable.
It was adjacent to one he'd deactivated :).
The wire fuse blew the ceramic holder out of the
socket and across the room (the fuse box lid was
open at the time). I still use them most days,
all the same.

Re: Old wiring repair youtubes
On Wednesday, 29 November 2017 21:01:49 UTC, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com  wrote:
NT:

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wire nuts are banned here. We have less electrical fires then the US as a r
esult.
Quoted text here. Click to load it
 wiring from central (regulated) suppliers on a common scheme began in the  
US in/around 1911, with major cities joining in the grid through the next t
en years or so. Rural Electrification began in earnest in 1936 and by 1940,
 the 'grid' was available to the entire US.  
Quoted text here. Click to load it
common people in GB until starting in 1926, making GB about 15 years behind
 the US, and much slower on the uptake moving forward. Pretty much everythi
ng done in the US was brand-new for the first 15 years or so - and the rest
 of the world learned from it.  

The unified electrical standard didn't complete here until about 1960. It w
as a slow business.

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ded (both the house and the wiring) in 1928. In 2005, the main service was  
upgraded and grounded wiring extended throughout the house to all branch-ci
rcuits and GFCI devices installed in all 'wet' locations - must have cost a
 fortune!  

1928 wiring in 2005 would be unthinkable here. Haven't seen anything that o
ld since one exceptional commercial property in the 80s. It was an instant  
inspection condemnation.


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o - are fine if they can be screwed down as a terminal strip (and they are  
approved in that application. But as individual joints, they are quite dang
erous.

I'm not buying it at all. We use them all the time.

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ection than a single screw bearing on two conductors in a small opening. Tw
ist together first (good mechanical connection), cut square or on a very sl
ight angle, then install the correctly sized wire-nut, very tight. I have d
one (easily) tens of thousands, and I carried at least five different sizes
 on any given job. Were signal-wiring involved, that would be four more siz
es.  

They were banned here in '55, but I lack further info on that.


NT

Re: Old wiring repair youtubes


wrote in message  

On Wednesday, November 29, 2017 at 2:48:53 PM UTC-5, Gareth Magennis wrote:

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They emphatically *DO NOT* meet the US NEC code for branch-wiring - and  
would be quite dangerous in such an application. Without seeing the actual  
situation in front of my eyes, I would not dare to opine on a solution. But,  
if it were my house, and I could not splice safely in the wall-box, I would  
bite the bullet and go back to the nearest box or back to the panel. It is  
*JUST NOT WORTH THE RISK* to do any less. I worked my way through school as  
an electrician,  mostly doing old-work repairs and installations in an old  
city. A good number of the  houses I worked in were first wired within a  
couple of years of 1913, and I learned the are of the "fish wire" from two  
experts.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA



********************************************

Interesting.

Can you specify what exactly is the problem with using these connectors?


Gareth.  


Re: Old wiring repair youtubes
On Wednesday, 29 November 2017 22:37:50 UTC, Gareth Magennis  wrote:
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e:
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ne-16a/dp/CB15474?CMP=KNC-GUK-CPC-GEN-SHOPPING-HELLERMANNTYTON-CB15474&gr
oss_price=true&mckv=swQRURloc_dc|pcrid|72935675177|kword||match||plid||
pid|CB15474|&gclidEA%IaIQobChMIg5WglMbk1wIVzLztCh05NQvYEAQYASABEgLGEfD_Bw
E
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l  
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ut,  
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ld  
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s  
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as  
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d  
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o  
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They are occasionally found loose. Whether that's due to bad installation o
r working loose who knows.


NT

Re: Old wiring repair youtubes
snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com says...
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Where I worked we had many thousands of connectors of the screw down  
types.  During an upgrade to equipment close to 1000 of the connectors  
were used on # 14 wire.  During the checkout part we found about 30 to  
40 of them loose enough the equipment would not work.  Several were  
found that either the insulation was not stripped far enough back the  
wires would not make connection or not at all .

There are contless thousands of wire nuts used.  Seldom a problem with  
them.  They are on wires from about # 22 to about # 8 wire.  Used from  
24 volts to 480 volt 3 phase wiring.

I never twist the wires before putting the wire nuts on.  The  
instructions say they can be twisted,but not needed for the ones we use.



Re: Old wiring repair youtubes
On Friday, 15 December 2017 22:38:34 UTC, Ralph Mowery  wrote:
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Both types cause fires, the US with wire nuts has worse stats, or did last time I looked.

I very much suspect the future will be spot welding.


NT

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