Odd battery voltages

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I opened a new package of Kirkland brand AA batteries but when I put
them in the device I got the flashing LED mesage of low voltage. Out
of 6 batteries 3 were bad. Measuring the voltages one battery measured
.82 volts, another 1.1 volts, and a third one measured -87 mV.
Negative? Really? Yeah, I thought that too. But I made sure the meter
leads were correctly placed. So I guess something weird is happenening
to these batteries while they are sitting in the package. Maybe they
are getting ready to leak. I'm thinking that package needs to go back.
to Costco.
Eric

Re: Odd battery voltages
On Fri, 19 Jul 2019 10:45:11 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@whidbey.com wrote:

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Cheap batteries are easy to find, just look at the too low price.


KenW

Re: Odd battery voltages
Tell you a story:

Energizer Batteries, 1960s-vintage Civil Defense Geiger Counter - my wife collected Fiesta Ware at the time. Paid $30 for the counter and its accouterments at a surplus sale.  

Batteries blew up.  
Sent the unit to Energizer.  

6-weeks later, I received a check from Energizer for $349.67, or some such close to that number, together with a polite note not to keep batteries in a device while in storage.  

Nothing but US-made batteries, from here on out. With Energizer being the preferred vendor.  

You may have saved $2 for that pack over a domestic name-brand. But it is costing you the trouble of returning them - which in any case will be far more than $2, probably enough for half-a-dozen 'real' batteries.  

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA  

Re: Odd battery voltages
On Fri, 19 Jul 2019 10:45:11 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@whidbey.com wrote:
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Yes!  
By all means return them to Costco with an attached note as to  
their failure(s).

I've been buying, storing (in a fridge), and using Costco's D, AA, AAA,  
and 9V batteries for at least 2 decades without issue.  Any retailer can
get hurt by bad products from a supplier.  But, without feedback . . . . .

Jonesy
--  
  Marvin L Jones     | W3DHJ      | W3DHJ  | https://W3DHJ.net/
   Pueblo, Colorado  |  @         | Jonesy |     __ linux FreeBSD
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Re: Odd battery voltages
On Friday, July 19, 2019 at 4:11:10 PM UTC-4, Allodoxaphobia wrote:
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I've never bothered experimenting, but Duracell recommends storing alkalines at room temp - storing in the refrigerator is not recommended.  Supposedly, rechargeables (other than eneloop types) will hold their charge longer if cold, but who knows?


Re: Odd battery voltages
On Fri, 19 Jul 2019 13:55:17 -0700 (PDT), John-Del wrote:
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My para-chemist opinion is that alkaline batteries are based on chemical  
processes, and chemical processes are slowed by lower temperatures.
(Just try starting your car in -50 degrees Fahrenheit.  I have.)

My other opinion is that (insert any company name here) has a mission  
statement that - (paraphrasing) states "We are here to move product".
(That's why peanut butter and jelly jars contain ridges.  You buy  
8 oz. and throw out .25 oz.  Big deal?  Well, after millions and millions
of .25 ounces are thrown out, you can see They Moved A Lot Of Product.

That's my belief and I'm sticking to it.  :-)
Jonesy
--  
  Marvin L Jones     | W3DHJ      | W3DHJ  | https://W3DHJ.net/
   Pueblo, Colorado  |  @         | Jonesy |     __ linux FreeBSD
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Re: Odd battery voltages
On 7/19/19 9:18 PM, Allodoxaphobia wrote:

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A few decades ago in another country I had a scraper/spatula with an  
edge shaped to match the ridges in cans and jars. Haven't seen such a  
thing since.

Perce


Re: Odd battery voltages
On Sat, 20 Jul 2019 11:00:19 -0400, "Percival P. Cassidy"

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It's called a "jar scraper tool" or something similar:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=jar+scraper+tool&tbm=isch
<
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I-Fo0SF6qU

<https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=peanut+butter+jar+scraper
<https://www.uncommongoods.com/product/peanut-butter-spoon

However, that doesn't mean that manufacturers can't retaliate and make
life difficult.  Try scraping all the peanut butter out of these jars:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=peanut+butter +"sun-pat"&tbm=isch>


--  
Jeff Liebermann     snipped-for-privacy@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
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Re: Odd battery voltages
On 7/20/19 10:11 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

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This is pretty close to what I had:

 >  
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tovolo-5-Serrated-Icing-Spatula-Cakes-And-Pastry-Kitchen-Baking/222395160334?hash=item33c7c8d70e:g:GFQAAOSw5cNYkS7q

Perce


Re: Odd battery voltages
On Friday, 19 July 2019 18:39:51 UTC+1, snipped-for-privacy@whidbey.com  wrote:

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I've had some with small negative v too. No idea what the chemistry is that's making that happen.

As for brands, most are much the same. ZnC and alkaline certainly aren't, but otherwise they're not a lot different. All are liable to leak when flat. ZnC sometimes leak when half flat.


NT

Re: Odd battery voltages
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A decade ago, I was happily buying the Kirkland-brand AAs from Costco,
getting good in-service lifetime and no problems to speak of.

A few years ago, something changed.  I began to find their AAs
starting to leak, while still fully charged (never put into service),
while still in the original storage box or shrink-wrap package, well
before their labeled "use by" date.

I don't know whether they changed suppliers, or whether their old
supplier's quality fell through the floor... but the result was the
same.  I've stopped buying the Kirkland batteries.





Re: Odd battery voltages
On 20/07/2019 8:30 am, Dave Platt wrote:
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Seems to be the same with all brands now, must be they have found a  
cheaper way to produce.

Re: Odd battery voltages
On Fri, 19 Jul 2019 17:30:54 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@coop.radagast.org (Dave
Platt) wrote:

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It was more than a few years.  In 1996, mercury was removed from
alkaline and other batteries.  Mercury is what prevented leaks:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alkaline_battery
   When introduced in the late 1960s, the zinc electrode of  
   alkaline batteries (in common with the then ubiquitous  
   carbon-zinc cells) had a surface film of mercury amalgam.  
   Its purpose was to control electrolytic action at impurity  
   sites, which would reduce shelf life and promote leakage.  
   With reductions in mercury content being mandated by  
   various legislatures, it became necessary to greatly improve  
   the purity and consistency of the zinc.

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Since they can't use mercury, they have to use highly refined zinc
which I assume is expensive.  In theory, using only the purity of the
zinc, they could adjust how long the battery will last before leaking
by simply controlling the impurity level in the zinc.


--  
Jeff Liebermann     snipped-for-privacy@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
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Re: Odd battery voltages
On Fri, 19 Jul 2019 10:45:11 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@whidbey.com wrote:

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Perhaps something like this mess?
<
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/Kirkland-AAA-leak.jpg

Actually, I've have fairly good luck with Kirkland batteries.  I buy
quite a few in various sizes.  Most work, but occasionally, I get a
loser like the one's in the photo.

--  
Jeff Liebermann     snipped-for-privacy@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
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Re: Odd battery voltages
wrote:

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Yeah, I've had good luck with Kirkland batteries too. Certainly no
worse than any other brand. This package was then first to contain bad
cells. I'm still curious about the reversal of the polarity in the one
cell.
Eric

Re: Odd battery voltages
As to how you would get 'negative' voltage. Consider what happens when you connect your VOM with the leads reversed.  

The chemistry in that battery had "flipped over" such that it was producing current opposite to the marked poles. Not uncommon with cheap batteries that often blow up even before being unwrapped.    

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA  

Re: Odd battery voltages
On Mon, 22 Jul 2019 05:06:05 -0700 (PDT), " snipped-for-privacy@aol.com"

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I know the chemistry somehow reversed. What I would like is an
explanation of what happened in detail. How the chemistry reverses.
Eric

Re: Odd battery voltages
On 7/22/19 12:34 PM, snipped-for-privacy@whidbey.com wrote:
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Completely discharged batteries can be reverse charged.
So, imagine, a dead cell in series with others, there's your
reverse charging potential.


--  
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
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Re: Odd battery voltages
On Monday, July 22, 2019 at 1:47:53 PM UTC-4, Fox's Mercantile wrote:
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Yep. You see this a lot when people mix batteries in a device.  Almost invariably, one will be die before the others and get reverse charged.
  

Re: Odd battery voltages
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OK:

Parts and pieces, simplified:

Zinc anode current collector.  
Manganese Oxide Cathode.
Potassium Hydroxide Electrolyte/Anode

Chemical Reactions = power + heat.  
External Heat will increase the completeness of the reaction.  
When that heat is removed, there is an opportunity for the reaction to reverse.  
When the expansion seal fails (the chemical reactions increase internal volume, and so will cause cheap batteries to leak), oxygen added to the system will react with the other chemicals and start that reverse reaction.

Notice that the reverse reaction is a very tiny fraction of the primary reaction, and needs a considerable and elaborate sequence-of-events to take place:

a) Over Reaction
b) Leak
c) Oxygen  

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA  


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