Normal to Have Warm Outlet to Portable Oven?

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Hi,

            When I use a portable roaster / oven, the outlet that I
plug the cord into gets pretty warm, as well as the wire at the last
few inches.   The cord has only 2 prongs, not 3. I think the roaster
is circa 1970. Is this OK? Anything to worry about?   Of course the
manual that comes with it says nothing about volts/ amps/ etc, just
says plug it in and cook.   This roaster is pretty big and has lots of
heating element material to heat up.

Thanks

Re: Normal to Have Warm Outlet to Portable Oven?

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  if the cord is getting hot at the receptacle end and not through up
to the roaster, I think you better check or replace the receptacle at
that unit. It could also be loose screws but I don't think you want to
gamble with that.

   Also, I don't know how old your place is however, you should have #12
  wire to that outlet back to the panel. The breaker in the panel should
not be no more than 15 amps with a #14 wire and 20 amps if you have #12
wire. In your case I think you better check or replace the outlet
receptacle. The stab fingers maybe getting loose.

  Yes, this is how people burn down their house!


  Jamie




Re: Normal to Have Warm Outlet to Portable Oven?
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I would replace the wall outlet and use the screw terminals, not the
'quick connect'. The outlets will warm a little under heavy load but
should not get 'hot'. Keep in mind that this heating is NOT causing
excessive current so breakers or fuses will NOT trip but the localized
heating MAY cause a fire. If you're not comfortable replacing it
yourself call an electrician. The outlets are not like a fine wine and
do not improve with age.

GB2%

Re: Normal to Have Warm Outlet to Portable Oven?
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The power information should be printed or molded into the oven
housing somewhere, often the bottom.
It is normal for the cord and plug to feel warm after running for some
time at these typical power levels, but not hot.
The cord should be a rubber type HPN and likely has a molded 2 pin
plug on the end. If so, after 40 years the strands of the copper
conductors near the plug often break due to the flexing in normal use
because the transition from soft rubber to the stiffer plug body forms
a 'stress point'.  Generally the cord is #16 AWG which is a bit light
for those type appliances that can draw as much as 1500W so as strands
break the wire effectively gets smaller and the area around the break
gets hotter. If this is the problem, the simple fix is to replace the
plug with a new 'heavy duty' plug after cutting off at least a couple
of inches of the end of the cord.

An alternate cause of this problem is the wall outlet being worn out
and having lost some of it's spring tension so it does not make a firm
connection to the plug prongs and that causes local heating. That heat
can soon soften the fingers in the outlet, further reducing the grip
and eventually destroying the cord, plug and outlet.

Another possible cause is aluminum wire feeding the outlet and the
connection to the outlet terminals becoming hot. That heat will pass
through the metal of the outlet contacts into the prongs of the plug
and on into the cord.

If the plug and cord are indeed hot, then that should be investigated
and repaired since it can easily be a potential fire hazard.

Neil S.



Re: Normal to Have Warm Outlet to Portable Oven?

"nesesu"

If the plug and cord are indeed hot, then that should be investigated
and repaired since it can easily be a potential fire hazard.


** Most plugs and cords are made from PVC which has a particularly high
ignition temperature of about 400 degrees C  -  to continue burning it needs
a source of heat too. If you deliberately overload a length of  PVC
appliance cord it will of course get hot, but at rated current it only gets
warm.

To reach the safe temp rating ( ie 75C ) of ordinary ( 7.5 or 10 amp rated )
PVC cord takes double the current - so 15 to 20 amps. To make the PVC soften
and melt takes 3 or 4 times the rated current  -  so 21 to 40 amps. At
melting temp, it is easy for the conductors to come into contact and so
instantly trip the breaker on the outlet.

For the PVC to actually catch fire requires so much current, the fuse or
breaker on the AC circuit will trip first.




...  Phil





Re: Normal to Have Warm Outlet to Portable Oven?
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Put a  two-prong to 3-prong adapter in the line...or a short HEAVY DUTY
extension cord.
That'll add some thermal isolation so you can tell whether the socket
in the wall or the plug on the wire is at fault.  Replace the one that's
getting hot.
Or you could try another wall socket.
Just to avoid the firestorm of people bitching...be sure to remove whatever
you put in after the test.

Re: Normal to Have Warm Outlet to Portable Oven?
snipped-for-privacy@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com:

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As soon as possible open up outlet and/or cord.
A loose wire or connection is producing heat,
and may cause a fire.


Re: Normal to Have Warm Outlet to Portable Oven?
There are two possibilities if the cord is getting warm.

1  If the outlet itself is overheating (due to bad contacts and/or loose
wiring), the heat could be warming the cord.

2  The cord has too-small a gauge for the current being drawn.

You have a potential fire hazard. I would replace the outlet, making sure
that everything is properly "battened down". I would also replace the power
cord with the heaviest gauge that will fit.



Re: Normal to Have Warm Outlet to Portable Oven?

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   Are the prongs clean and shiny? Oxide on the prongs or the contacts
in the outlet cause a voltage drop & heating.  It wll be conducted up
the wire for a few inches.  Kitchen outles can get a lot of cooking
grease and crap in them, as well.  If the outlet is old, it should be
replaced on general principals and with a quality 20A outlet.

--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

Re: Normal to Have Warm Outlet to Portable Oven?
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Does that help?
I replaced a 15A bathroom socket with 20A some decades ago.
I contemplated another changeout and did some research.
It seemes that when you plug a 15A plug into a 20A socket,
the actual contact area is LESS than with a 15A socket.
Just look into the T-shaped hole; it seems obvious.

What am I missing?

Re: Normal to Have Warm Outlet to Portable Oven?
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the pressure on the 20amps receptacles is much higher too- they really
bite into the plug which assures a good connection. this is good.




Re: Normal to Have Warm Outlet to Portable Oven?

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   The 20A outlet is designed for higher current, and lower contact
resistance.  They also tend to hold the plug tighter, and for more
operating cycles before they wear out.  15A outlets are fine for TVs and
table lamps that are plugged in for years at a time and draw lower
current.  It's your choice.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

Re: Normal to Have Warm Outlet to Portable Oven?
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1) Corroded contacts on the (male) plug.
Burnish with steel wool until shiny.

2) Poke-in connections used on the outlet. (Not screw-down.)
Cut the wires flush, strip them, and use the screws.

3) Aluminum wiring and loose screws.
Tighten the screws.
http://google.com/images?q=aluminum-wire+anti-oxidant

4) Worn-out receptacle. (Poor tension.)
Replace the outlet.

Re: Normal to Have Warm Outlet to Portable Oven?

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   Metal polish is better.  It removes less metal and gives a smoother
finish, thus lowering contact resistance.  Also, there is no chance of
metal shavings getting into the connectors.
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   They are called, Back Stab, and were invented to save time for sloppy
union electricians.


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   If you have aluminum wire, you better be damn careful of any
repairs.  There are special UL approved crimp on pigtails that are AL/CU
compatible.  DIY methods can lead to lawsuits after a fire.

 
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   You missed corroded contacts, which cause the outlet to run hot.
That destroys the spring in the contacts.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

Re: Normal to Have Warm Outlet to Portable Oven?
Thanks for the many replies !!     I plugged the roaster into another
kitchen outlet, and it got just as warm, both the end of the cord and
the outlet. It just  gets  "warm" not "hot".   The wall receptacles
are all 3 prong. The male prongs on the cord are clean and look like
brass.

Re: Normal to Have Warm Outlet to Portable Oven?
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What's the ampere rating on the toaster ID plate?

Re: Normal to Have Warm Outlet to Portable Oven?
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"warm" Sounds fairly normal to me. "Hot" - not so much. At 120 volts (US)
the thing probably draws on the order of 10 amperes. Enough to heat up any
cord or outlet. Toasters do not run continuously, and unless the cord or
outlet / wiring are defective, warmth such as this does not indicate a
problem.
It is the ohmic resistance of the wiring and the plug connections that can
cause a problem. That is why portable heaters etc should not normally be
used with extension cords.

Mark Z.


Re: Normal to Have Warm Outlet to Portable Oven?
On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 07:54:17 -0800 (PST), Vacillator

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Okay, but that 2 vs. 3 is not your problem.

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Back around 1980, I was using a 1200 watt space heater in an outlet of
a building built in 1930.   I was living in the maid's room, and that
receptacle only had a place for one plug, though another in the same
room and all the others in the 6-room apartment were double, like
usual.

I woke up in the morning to see flames about an inch or an inch and a
half coming from the plug.  I pulled out the cord and the flame went
out i a few seconds.

The problem was that after 50 years, the springiness of the receptacle
was very low, and its tabs didn't hold tightly to the plugs prongs.
The plug went in and out more easily than other plugs do.  

Is that your situation?  How old is your hourse?   How old is the
outlet?  Is it loose.


A second possibility is that the wire just as it enters the plug is
partially broken, and the high current through what is now a small
wire is causing heat.   If you keep your finger on that spot just
after turning the roaster on or plugging it in, you'll probably feel
it warm up there before it warms up on the plug right at the wall.


If you're having trouble distinguishing where hte heat starts, the
other guy's idea of using a (heavy-durty,short  if possiblet)
extension cord in the middle, is a very good one.


Some plugs have prongs are designed to be srpingy.  Others have prongs
that are thick,   And still others have prongs  that are folded pieces
of metal. For the last kind, I've carefully put a kinife in between
the follds and then bent the two layers apart, up to 3/16" in the
middle of the bend..  I thought that would be enough, but it hasn't
done much good for some reason in  the places I tried it. .

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