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Need help INTERPRETING these test results police cruiser SAE J866a Chase Test

Please note the on-topic, technical edits. Done for accuracy.

Yes, we have. And, so sorry Jimmy, despite all the manure you have spread, there is no pony.

Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA

The Pony Joke.

?The joke concerns twin boys of five or six. Worried that the boys had developed extreme personalities ? one was a total pessimist, th e other a total optimist ? their parents took them to a psychiatris t.?

?First the psychiatrist treated the pessimist. Trying to brighten h is outlook, the psychiatrist took him to a room piled to the ceiling with b rand-new toys. But instead of yelping with delight, the little boy burst in to tears. 'What's the matter?' the psychiatrist asked, baffled. 'Don't you want to play with any of the toys?' 'Yes,' the little boy bawled, 'but if I did I'd only break them.'?

?Next the psychiatrist treated the optimist. Trying to dampen his o ut look, the psychiatrist took him to a room piled to the ceiling with hors e manure. But instead of wrinkling his nose in disgust, the optimist emitte d just the yelp of delight the psychiatrist had been hoping to hear from hi s brother, the pessimist. Then he clambered to the top of the pile, dropped to his knees, and began gleefully digging out scoop after scoop with his b are hands. 'What do you think you're doing?' the psychiatrist asked, just a s baffled by the optimist as he had been by the pessimist. 'With all this m anure,' the little boy replied, beaming, 'there must be a pony in here some where!'?

Reply to
pfjw
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Just a horse's ass.

--
"I am a river to my people." 
Jeff-1.0 
WA6FWi 
http:foxsmercantile.com
Reply to
Fox's Mercantile

What a grave insult to the Equine community!

Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA

All of us, if we are of reflective habit, like and admire men whose fundame ntal beliefs differ radically from our own. But when a candidate for public office faces the voters he does not face men of sense; he faces a mob of m en whose chief distinguishing mark is the fact that they are quite incapabl e of weighing ideas, or even of comprehending any save the most elemental ? men whose whole thinking is done in terms of emotion, and whose d ominant emotion is dread of what they cannot understand. So confronted, the candidate must either bark with the pack or count himself lost. ? All the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and med iocre ? the man who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his m ind is a virtual vacuum. The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perf ected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the pl ain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the Whit e House will be adorned by a downright moron.

H.L. Mencken

Reply to
pfjw

that's true now

same here

they're on cars, so used.

NT

Reply to
tabbypurr

not really. But cars generally seem to deal with it ok. Ultimately it comes down to enough force to create enough friction, and almost any friction material can do that.

I certainly bought bad pads in about 2000. The ones from the scrapyard OTOH I had no problem with. Those I got to see after they'd been used a bit, so I knew they weren't disintegrating, let alone badly, or oily.

You criticised buying pads off scrap vehicles before, but truth is every time you buy a used car you're getting used brake pads. It's not a problem really.

NT

Reply to
tabbypurr

Yup. Basic Economics 101. Price is only a function of demand.

Price is never directly related to quality. Price is only a function of demand.

Demand is a function of lots of complex variables, which is why they invented Marketing (to greatly influence the demand).

I can't imagine buying used brake shoes or pads off a scrapped car. I just can't.

Whoever proposes to buy brake pads and shoes off of junked cars is fine with his logic, but he doesn't need to repeat it since it's not something most of us would do.

I can see buying some parts at a scrap yard (e.g., a door or a fender), but I just can't see buying a brake pad or shoe off a scrapped car.

How do you even do that? Do you walk around the junk yard to look for your exact year, make and model and then pull the wheels and then pull the pads?

That's a lot of work, if you even find the right make and model, and then if you can get to it (since they pile these things five cars high sometimes) and if you can get the rusted lug bolts and brake drums off and then you have to disassemble the brakes.

Seems like a *lot* of work for a brake shoe that will be "iffy" because you have no way of knowing their condition ahead of time.

Or, maybe the junk yard does that for you, but then you are just staring at a pile of brake shoes on the wall, which maybe, if you're lucky, have accurate designations for the make and model of the vehicle they came off of.

I guess if you bring your old shoes with you, you can match them, but that means your car is on blocks the whole time you do this, so you have to have a second vehicle to do it.

I just don't see *how* it's practicable. Do you?

Reply to
Mad Roger

Yup. Basic Economics 101. Price is only a function of demand.

Price is never directly related to quality. Price is only a function of demand.

Demand is a function of lots of complex variables, which is why they invented Marketing (to greatly influence the demand).

I can't imagine buying used brake shoes or pads off a scrapped car. I just can't.

Whoever proposes to buy brake pads and shoes off of junked cars is fine with his logic, but he doesn't need to repeat it since it's not something most of us would do.

I can see buying some parts at a scrap yard (e.g., a door or a fender), but I just can't see buying a brake pad or shoe off a scrapped car.

How do you even do that? Do you walk around the junk yard to look for your exact year, make and model and then pull the wheels and then pull the pads?

That's a lot of work, if you even find the right make and model, and then if you can get to it (since they pile these things five cars high sometimes) and if you can get the rusted lug bolts and brake drums off and then you have to disassemble the brakes.

Seems like a *lot* of work for a brake shoe that will be "iffy" because you have no way of knowing their condition ahead of time.

Or, maybe the junk yard does that for you, but then you are just staring at a pile of brake shoes on the wall, which maybe, if you're lucky, have accurate designations for the make and model of the vehicle they came off of.

I guess if you bring your old shoes with you, you can match them, but that means your car is on blocks the whole time you do this, so you have to have a second vehicle to do it.

I just don't see *how* it's practicable. Do you?

Reply to
Mad Roger

I agree with your logical thought process in that the only scientific summary that makes logical sense is that all pads work just fine in passenger vehicles, with the main difference being the foot pounds of torque applied to the brake pedal to obtain the desired deceleration rate.

Hence, any pad is fine, EE or FF or GG, for stopping the vehicle.

I go though a set of front pads once every couple of years, never more than two years on my own vehicle, but on this vehicle, it took 20 years to go through one set of rear shoes.

The problem isn't the scrapyard per se. The problem is getting the *right* pads at the scrapyard. That can't be easy (see my other post on how that's done).

What does that even mean?

I don't at all disagree with your apropos logic that every time you buy a used car you get used pads, but, you can assume (logically) that the pads fit.

I've been to junk yards where there literally are junked cars piled four and five cars high outdoors, where you walk the yard looking for the fender or mirror that you want.

To look for brake pads would be an order of magnitude harder because you can't see the brake pad until you find a similar vehicle make model and year, you climb up to the top car, you remove the wheels, you pull the rusty drums or calipers off, and then, only then, do you get any chance to see the condition of the brake pads and shoes.

Or, if the scrapyard does all that for you, and has placed a ton of brake shoes on the shelves, you can pick among them for the right size and shape, but that process comes with the problem that you have to have a comparison pad and shoe in your hands, which means your car is up on blocks and you're borrowing someone else's car.

If you can read the AMECA edge code, you have a chance at getting the right shoe or pad, but it sure does seem like a lot of effort when an FF pad or shoe is about $20 a set of four at Rock Auto.

Did I surmise the scrap yard process incorrectly? If so, how would you correct that process of *selecting* the right pads?

Reply to
Mad Roger

Fair enough. You passed the test of posting an on-topic post.

I understand your logic (I was hoping Jeff Liebermann would answer).

Since your logic is unassailable...

I will *remove* s.e.r from all my responses from now moving forward.

Reply to
Mad Roger

Lucky us.

--
"I am a river to my people." 
Jeff-1.0 
WA6FWi 
http:foxsmercantile.com
Reply to
Fox's Mercantile

But, of course, not from the initial blathering, most likely. This accretion of bad smells needs the validation.

Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA

Reply to
pfjw

+1. Though even then there can be exceptions on occasion.

hy?

no-one here buys brakes off a scrapped car from scrapyards, so they had abo ut zero market value. They were decent enough though. There was no reason t o think they were any worse than the array of stuff sold new, and being for back brakes it wasn't a demanding app.

But my later experience with disintegrating pads suggests that getting brak e shoes/pads this way may actually be safer.

I like those kind of deals. Sometimes I get them.

how could they possibly not be? The new brakes sold end up on scrap cars

thank god not here

d,

I can't help thinking folk are deriving a false sense of security from buyi ng new. The only totally unsatisfactory brake pads I've had were brand new from a major UK chain. If I'd seen those in a scrapyard I'd have known not to touch them. New one can't tell that they'll disintegrate in use.

g

I presume the main issues with oak are

  1. compressibility, meaning it requires more force x distance to get it to do the job
  2. charring along with low thermal conduction, meaning high speed stops are no-go, or would that be go and keep going. If heated to such a point the w ear would also be excessive.
  3. flammability

The solution? More contact area :)

I never knew that.

NT

Reply to
tabbypurr

even that's wrong.

why would you need the same year car? The same brake assembly was used across the body style & engine/trim option range for years

no work at all. 'I'm looking for abc from an xyz. We got those here, here & here.'

not all are.

you're not much of a mechanic if you can't get brake drums off

well, remove the shoes anyway, a trivial exercise

maybe 5-10 minutes versus 5 buying new off the shelf. Since I was also there to buy another entire wheel/brake assembly it saved time rather than adding it.

total rubbish.

so I see

Sure, I've done cars up before. I see your attitude a lot, and find it fundamentally silly. Sorry but I do.

NT

Reply to
tabbypurr

.

With respect we know that all pads or shoes don't work fine, and I've never claimed they do. If your unfamiliar with brake failure on modern cars due to the driver using them more & harder than design specs then maybe brake w ork is not for you. It's precisely why pursuit vehicles have better brakes.

Driving down a mountainside in one history piece I had, well aware of the t endency for brakes to fail in that scenario. Suffice it to say I had to sto p when they were getting close to that point. Had I been Jo Average with no clue about brake fade there would have been a big mess. The first time I e ncountered this I discovered that the degree of fade was far worse than I'd expected, braking effect can go from 100% to nothing repeatedly. The only thing preventing carnage is the nut behind the wheel.

an

it's almost trivial

One would hope so :)

er

o

Normally they're ok, and normally the owner has a pretty good idea which of his stock has had recent brake work on it, so will point you to those.

e,

n

re

ht

there were no markings or codes on them then. AFAIK all the available optio ns were asbestos based.

$20 to get pads you don't know how they'll hold up in service versus $1.50 to get pads that you can see are doing good and have 90+% of life left. Tha t's really the choice, at least for cars where you have both options, which of course you don't always.

NT

Reply to
tabbypurr
[ Snip ]

You're talking to yourself. Shit for brains left already.

--
"I am a river to my people." 
Jeff-1.0 
WA6FWi 
http:foxsmercantile.com
Reply to
Fox's Mercantile

Mad Roger posted for all of us...

Then you have been poorly trained. Our company had mandatory EVOC (Emergency Vehicle Operations Course) training by a certified instructor & recertification. PA is a "due regard" state. Look it up. You can't help if the vehicle is crashed. You are responsible for the crew and victims.

--
Tekkie
Reply to
Tekkie®

ncy

f
3105. - Title 75 - PA General Assembly

(d) Ambulances, blood delivery vehicles and human organ delivery vehicles.

--The driver of an ambulance, blood delivery vehicle or human organ deliver y vehicle shall comply with maximum speed limits, red signal indications an d stop signs. After ascertaining that the ambulance, blood delivery vehicle or human organ delivery vehicle will be given the right-of-way, the driver may proceed through a red signal indication or stop sign.

As it happens, in PA.

However, Jimmy Neutron in any of his guises is still an idiot.

Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA.

Reply to
pfjw

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