Need help diagnosing laser printer

I have an HP Laserjet 4MP.

Something went haywire in the toner cartridge and dumped toner. I cleaned it out and replaced the toner cartridge and it sorta worked. Had some background artifacts, but I chalked that up to 20 year old toner cartridges.

A month later, I tried it and it had severe banding and the background was almost as dark as the print. Ran a dozen prints and it got a little better.

I pulled the toner cartridge out of a perfectly working Laserjet 4L and ran 8 successive prints in the 4MP. I put the toner back into the 4L and it still prints perfectly.

The following image represents 8 successive prints of the same page in the laserjet 4MP using the known-good toner cartridge.

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It shows the first page and the left 400 pixels of the next 7 prints attached to the right to show the banding in the background.

There are artifacts from the aliasing in the scanner, jpg and the resampling to reduce the image size to something manageable to publish on the internet. The only intention is to show the background banding differences from print to print. Parts that are supposed to be black are deep black and clearly defined.

It's the background that is the issue. It's supposed to be white.

Note that the banding varies radically from print to print. If you look for bands that repeat at the circumferences of rollers in the print system, you can find some, but even those don't always repeat on the same page.

If I pull the toner mid-print, the background toner is definitely on the drum. It appears that the problem is NOT in the fuser or other rollers in the system. It happens inside the toner cartridge.

The only thing I can think of is that the power supply that charges the drum is defective and supplying insufficient voltage. The service manual is very detailed describing the process. There's a DC bias plus an AC component. But they stop short of describing the amplitudes of each. Seems to be about -500V from the rough graph. I could solder some wires on a toner cartridge and see what it looks like, but it would be nice to know what to expect. I don't know the current capacity (impedance) of the supply. Toner is likely conductive, but it doesn't look like toner got into the area of the power contacts. Anybody know what power waveforms/voltages to expect?

The thing is put together like a Chinese Jigsaw puzzle. The power supply is at the center. I don't have much hope of being able to run the supply disassembled. About all I can do is check caps for ESR and look for dirt or bad solder joints.

I like this printer. It does what I need and I have a lifetime supply of toner cartridges for it. I also have a LJ4L and a LJ4P. I'd buy an inexpensive color laser printer, but they all seem to have EXPENSIVE chipped toner cartridges that expire and refuse to print whether you used them or not. I don't print much. Inkjet is not an option. My inkjet plugged up a decade ago from non-use.

I understand that most of you would not waste time fixing it, but I have the time and the desire to learn about how it all works.

Anybody got ideas of what to try?

Thanks, mike

Reply to
mike
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A common problem on many of these printers is the wiper blade. it is a silicone elastomer that wipes excess toner that didn't transfer onto the page off the photoconductor drum. The blade gest a permanent set after sitting for a year or so, and won't remove toner effectively. I am not POSITIVE that is your problem, but it resembles what I've seen. I have a 5m that I think may use a similar print engine and cartridge. I buy NOS carts on eBay, and then generally have to replace the wiper blade. There are guys on eBay that will sell you a new blade. One way to check is look at the green photoconductor drum, you just have to pull back the protective cover. If it is strongly streaked with toner, then the wiper blade is not working. Or, look through the slot on top where the laser shines through, if there is any toner whatsoever there (it should be glassy clean and shiny) then the wiper is bad.

If you tear down the cartridge (which you have to do slightly to change the wiper blade) then inspect and clean the corona wires. if they get a bunch of toner on them, they either short out the HV power supply or just don't work.

The cart on the 5m has a cover on each end, held by 1 or 2 screws. After removeng them, there are two sections to the cart, held together by hinge pins. it is tricky to work the pins out, but when you do, the cart comes apart in two pieces. One is the toner applicator, VERY messy, keep from tilting it so the toner doesn't spill. The other part has the photoconductor and corona wires, and the wiper blade and spent toner bucket. When you get it apart, there are bearing pins in each end of the photoconductor, pull these out, the drum comes out, and you can change the wiper blade. Then, reassemble.

This all applies to the 5m cart, but I think the 4m either uses the same or a very similar cart.

Jon

Reply to
Jon Elson

Is there charge neutralising linear lamp/s/LEDS for HP lasers, if so the cover glass could be dirty. Or problem with the reclaim/retraction (? I forget the term) "corona" voltage to assist in wiping the drum , not just the wiper blade to do that

Reply to
N_Cook

I have no idea. I got my HP 4P about 2004, $15 at a Rotary Club garage sale, and it's worked fine ever since. It even had a low page count, I have no idea why it got donated in the first place.

But I know back when I got it, I was able to download a service manual for it, so at least do a search now. Maybe that gives hints.

Michael

Reply to
Michael Black

You really have to read the whole thread. By the time the mad snippers get through with the initial question, you miss the part that says I referred to the manual. The input so far is discussed in the original question that I spent hours to carefully configure for maximum communication... only to have it snipped and ignored. Recommending I do a search is not very helpful. It's not like we don't search before posting. What WOULD be helpful is a recommendation for keywords to search. If we search for the wrong keywords, we won't find it. A quick look at the google hit page is misleading. Many of the "hits" found by google don't exist. And many of those that do exist link to "information" on other pages that no longer exist. End of rant...

These are the current image references for the test pages and the two toner cartridge voltages for the precharge roller and developer roller.

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Just realized that the image links aren't permanent... Voltage on the developer cylinder is about 1300V P-P with an offset of about -450V. Sorta square wave with ~550uS period. Voltage on the precharge cylinder is about 2100V P-P sine wave about

4.2 mS period. Starts out at 0V offset, then shifts to -400V offset before the paper gets there.

These voltages are for a WORKING system, see below. I thought about putting the "wired up" cartridge in a different working printer, but I have a long history of using one good system to try to fix a bad one and ending up with two bad ones.

I verified that the printer elements that are supposed to be grounded actually seem to be grounded. The resistance to ground for the precharge power supply in the Laserjet 4MP was 2.5Meg compared to 5Meg in a Laserjet 4P. You'd think the power supplies were the same, but dunno... I attached wires to the toner cartridge contacts and scoped the signals during printing.

I was very surprised to learn that the AC component of the signal was several times as big as the DC offset.

I was also very surprised to see that ALL the banding had disappeared. Both cartridges that had severe banding were now free from that banding. I had cleaned the contacts and swapped cartridges dozens of time. Now, it's all good! I didn't actually fix anything, so I'm expecting it to fail again.

Both my test cartridges were old and had vertical stripes due to the wiper blade not cleaning properly. I stuck in a NOS refilled cartridge. At power on, it made a loud "snap" and dumped toner. I can't catch a break...

I cleaned all that up and tried a NOS genuine HP toner cart. Before I installed it, I gently rocked the drum back and forth to make sure that it wasn't stuck to any of the wiper blades. That cartridge seems to work and the printer is now back in service.

I spent a week messing with this. I learned a lot, but still have no idea what caused the banding. Maybe my saga can help someone else in the future.

I'd still be interested in an explanation of how the banding shown in the picture could possibly happen. I can't come up with a failure mode that would produce such a varied banding pattern on successive printouts of the same page.

Reply to
mike

With those sorts of voltages running around, any kind of probing carries a LOT of risks! So, you are wise.

Well, you did mention a big toner spill. That stuff is conductive, and so you have to get it nearly all cleaned up, or it will get in somewhere and load down a corona supply. I'm guessing somewhere along the trail you cleaned off the magic spot where the toner had shorted something out.

Well, a weak corona voltage or dirty corona wire could give poor charge, so the toner didn't all transfer to the paper. Then, the weak wiper blade didn't clean the drum, so the toner accumulated as it rotated. But, I'm just guessing. My experience has mostly been with the bad wiper blades. Once the drum is covered in toner, the laser beam can't write the pattern of charged and discharged areas, so the whole page comes out grey. But, you may have actually had TWO problems going on at the same time, much harder to diagnose.

Jon

Reply to
Jon Elson

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