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Re: Kind of a generic electrolytic cap question
On 11/23/19 3:38 AM, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:
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To a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
To a hack, everything looks like a can't.


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Re: Kind of a generic electrolytic cap question
On Saturday, 23 November 2019 14:18:09 UTC, Fox's Mercantile  wrote:
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life's too short for this much childishness. Sorry.

Re: Kind of a generic electrolytic cap question
On 11/24/19 10:59 AM, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:
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And yet you persist.

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Re: Kind of a generic electrolytic cap question
On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 08:59:55 -0800, tabbypurr wrote:

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The idiot's a troll. Look back at his previous interactions with others  
here and elsewhere and there's an unmistakable picture that emerges. I've  
KF'd him. You can waste *so* much time on pricks like that if you're not  
careful.



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Re: Kind of a generic electrolytic cap question
On 11/24/19 6:28 PM, Cursitor Doom wrote:
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Oh dear, I've been kill filed by a hack. What ever shall I do?



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Re: Kind of a generic electrolytic cap question
On Monday, 25 November 2019 00:28:56 UTC, Cursitor Doom  wrote:
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he's aping slowman.

Re: Kind of a generic electrolytic cap question
On 11/25/19 12:10 AM, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:
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Get a room you two.


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Re: Kind of a generic electrolytic cap question
On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 22:10:44 -0800, tabbypurr wrote:

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Just plain aping. I find it impossible to believe that anyone could  
*genuinely* be that stupid. Hence my deduction he's a troll - and now one  
of the very few posters I've felt it necessary to perma-plonk. Just think  
of all that valuable future time I've saved myself by avoiding further  
futile and infantile exchanges from him. >:-}



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Re: Kind of a generic electrolytic cap question
On 11/25/19 4:12 PM, Cursitor Doom wrote:
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I guess you lied about kill filing me.



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Re: Kind of a generic electrolytic cap question
On Thu, 14 Nov 2019 18:32:29 -0800, John-Del wrote:

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Or a dry solder joint somewhere on the board.

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Good call. For which you can use stuff like 'pipe freeze' or 'Arctic  
freeze' with the fine straw inserted - sold at your local plumbing  
supplies. Clean the board with IPA afterwards.




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Re: Kind of a generic electrolytic cap question
On Thu, 14 Nov 2019 18:32:29 -0800, John-Del wrote:


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Why so?



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Re: Kind of a generic electrolytic cap question
On Friday, November 15, 2019 at 4:45:16 AM UTC-5, Cursitor Doom wrote:
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Too many circuits these days use a small value SMD multi layer chip capacitor bypassing an electrolytic.  These chip caps have ESR figures as low or lower than most electrolytics you're likely to run across despite being small value caps.  


Re: Kind of a generic electrolytic cap question
On 2019/11/15 5:26 a.m., John-Del wrote:
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Except this machine is from 1982 (paper tape readers, etc.) - so any  
electros are primary smoothing ones for Vcc.

http://cncmanual.com/download/1647/

John :-#)#

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Re: Kind of a generic electrolytic cap question
wrote:

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Some Grass Valley products from the early 80s had electrolytics that
would open but the surrounding circuitry would cause an ESR meter to
read very low ESR. Once the electrolytic was pulled, it would test
bad.

Re: Kind of a generic electrolytic cap question
The EProms can cause issues when they age.

From my days of programming the 2716's.  My programmer was semi-manual and it was really sensitive to the the programming voltage.

An EEprom may not have been erased completely.

Do inspect the board for bad solder joints.

Freeze spray can sometimes help make equipment fail or work.  On a non-powered board, it can help highlight a bad solder joint.

Re: Kind of a generic electrolytic cap question
On 2019/11/15 10:56 a.m., Ron D. wrote:
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My Xeltek 610P programmer has a feature where it will test EPROMs at +/-  
10% of the voltage to help weed out iffy burns or EPROMs.

Recently I had some EPROMs I was verifying and they failed the  
over-voltage test - so I reprogrammed them (not erased, just hit them  
with the programmer burn process) and then they tested just fine. I  
assume I recharged the gates so all was then well.

John :-#)#

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Re: Kind of a generic electrolytic cap question
wrote:

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   I will need to erase the EPROMs before they get new programs. My
wife has a UV light source she uses for curing some sort of fingernail
coating for artificial nails. I'm hoping it will work OK.  
   The programmer I am buying is the MCUmall Electronics model GQ-4x4.
I called them and they said programmer software verifies the info
downloaded from the EPROM and then once again verifies the uploaded
info.
Eric

Re: Kind of a generic electrolytic cap question
On 2019/11/15 12:01 p.m., snipped-for-privacy@whidbey.com wrote:
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I would HIGHLY recommend that you keep the original EPROMs and get some  
good 2716s to burn and a few spares...

Please do not erase your originals!

John :-#)#

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Re: Kind of a generic electrolytic cap question
wrote:

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I will NOT be erasing the originals. They are, as near as I can tell,
not available from any soyrce. I have looked for a long time on eBay
in the hope that someone scrapping a machine will have some. But the
machines, while similar, are never the same. I'm even afriad to copy
them. That's why I am going to practice on some others first.
Eric

Re: Kind of a generic electrolytic cap question
On 2019/11/15 12:47 p.m., snipped-for-privacy@whidbey.com wrote:
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Reading is pretty safe, however I would recommend you contact MCUmall  
and make sure that the READ process for pin 21 is done at 5VDC and not  
at the programming voltage which is 21VDC. You can verify this with a  
voltmeter by simply not having any chip in the socket and then do a read  
while monitoring socket pin 21 (ad common at pin 12) to make sure the  
voltage is 5VDC. It would not hurt to verify that pin 24, again relative  
to pin 12 - is also 5VDC. Lastly, for the paranoid folks, I would also  
check pin 20 and 18 to make sure they are never higher than 5VDC.

I am not saying the MCUmall programmer is bad, I'm just pointing out how  
I would check any programmer that I am trusting irreplaceable EPROMs to!

If you have a scope so much the better to test the programmer READ  
voltages at the various pins!

As you say you only have the one set of EPROMs and your equipment would  
be worthless if any are damaged by the programmer!

Does this machine have an 8-bit CPU such as Z80, 68XX, 6502, etc? If  
someone lives near you and has a Fluke 9010 with the appropriate pod  
then they could extract the data from the EPROMs at no risk to them.  
They would also need an RS-232 port on the Fluke to grab the data... I  
can do this in my shop, but I suspect we are not very close - I'm in  
Vancouver (Burnaby, but no one knows that city), Canada area...

John

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