How do I decide if these five tires are holed too close to the sidewall?

On Wed, 21 Dec 2016 17:18:30 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca advised:

Thanks for that detail that the edge of the steel belt is different than the middle of the steel belt. That may be why I think I've heard tire repair guys saying they can't patch within so many inches of the edge, even if it's still in the "tread" area.

Thank you for that detail because that's essentially why I asked the question. So we're looking at an inch (to remember it easily) from the edge of the tread on both sides.

I have seen "alligators" on the road, mostly from truck tires, probably from re-surfaced tires, probably on the inside tire of a dual-tire setup, which must flap like a sonofabitch when they come off!

This industry (RMA?) recommendation makes sense, and I agree with your statement that both a plug and a patch should be made and the inside of the tire should be visibly inspected.

For one, someone could have driven on the tire such that the belts are protruding from the inside. In this case, I didn't see such damage on the five test tires, but it could have been there.

I agree with you that an external plug in an emergency is an expediency that most of us would do. I'd even patch a sidewall, if that's what it took to get off the road. (Dunno if that's even possible though.)

On Wed, 21 Dec 2016 16:22:54 -0500, Meanie advised:

Thanks for the detail, as all the holes I patched were screws or bolts, so, they're pretty small, and, as others said, all were within the "tread" area.

That's interesting as I can infer from that the lower-profile tires have a slightly greater area of patchability, all other things being equal.

That's interesting that the patch can go to very edge of the tread. I had previously thought it could only go in the "middle" of the tread.

I knew about patchplugs, but I didn't have any so I made my own patchplug with a plug first, cut flush, and then a patch.

Seems to me, in the end, the kind of patch and then plug that I did should work though, as they're essentially the same thing in the end, right?

Thanks. I actually knew that (but you didn't know I knew that). I was removing the tire anyway, so as to get experience with breaking the bead and reseating the bead.

So I plugged it first from the outside, and then patched it from the inside. Seems to me that should be good enough for government work, but I don't know (which is why I ask).

I agree a single-piece patch-plug is better than either a patch or a plug alone. I suspect a two-piece patch-and-then-plug is still better than either a patch or a plug alone.

Does that also make sense to you?

That does seem like a far more elegant solution than the path-and-then-plug that I came up with on my own.

Thank you for that advice. I figured it had to be flush, but your argument that it doesn't need to be flush as it may seal better not being flush and that it will wear with the tire makes sense.

On Wed, 21 Dec 2016 16:52:29 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca advised:

Hi Clare,

I patched five tires with the goopy string plugs, and then cut them flush on both sides, and then put a patch on top of the plugs.

I know they sell a one-piece patch-plug, but that seemed like overkill for my tests so I just wonder what you recommend for two-piece plugs if a one-piece patch-plug isn't around.

Would you do it the way I did it, or differently?

On Wed, 21 Dec 2016 18:25:31 -0500, Meanie advised:

I realize you're talking to Clare, but I want to say I agree with you that warnings such as "don't run with scissors" are great, but they're essentially useless because nobody ever gets hurt while running with scissors (so to speak).

Specifically, Clare told me that my patch is a "disaster waiting to happen", which, other than the treadwear, I don't see where he gets that from.

Sure, I didn't use a single-piece patchplug, but, my question is whether anyone sees a *safety* issue with the way I did these tires?

a. Is the patch too large or too small? b. Is the goopy plug a safety issue? c. Is the location on the tire a safety issue.

Other than treadwear, I don't (yet) see any safety issues with my repairs.

Again, I agree with you. It's like that warning on plastic bags not to suffocate people with them. They're not useful for someone who is thinking about what they're doing.

Which is what I'm trying to do here.

In an emergency, you'll be glad you have those skills! I'm trying to obtain those skills now, before the emergency too.

Guess everyone needs a hobby ;-)

--
You can?t get rich in politics unless you?re a crook. 
				- President Harry Truman

a repaired Michelin X came apart on a friend's Rover 2000 sedan in Zambia and it took the rear febser and wheelwell apart. The rear tire in my brothers Dodge Aspenn (a Zeta 40M from UniRoyal - back in 1972) lost it's belt at 70mph on the Burlington Ontario Skyway bridge and did a lot of damage and almost killed him. I've seen tires with the steel belt badly rusted and kicked over an inch to the side without coming apart - but the tire wagged the car like a dog's tail.. When you do something dangerous it usually DOES work just fine - until it doesn't. That said, the warnings ARE there to protect the manufacturer - and are followed by concientious businesses to keep their liability insurance rates low enough to be able to stay in business.

Repairing your own tires is your own risk, primarily.

They're TYRES. TIRES means run out of energy. Learn basic English.

--
The most effective way to remember your wife's birthday is to forget it once.

Next time the bike needs new shoes I'll give you a shout. Then there's patching the tire in the woods or in some random parking lot. I don't balance them. With knobbies, how would you ever know?

How does it feel to be trailing India? Stick a fork in the UK and its quirky spellings; it's done.

None of those are sidewall related. I will plug/patch a tire with usable tread right to the edge of the tread mold. You are still in multiple ply area there.

I won't patch a sidewall on a passenger vehicle but on something like a tractor, loader or skidder I don't have a problem using a chunk of live rubber and vulcanizing it in, I've even stitched some together and patched them. Toss a tube in to hold the air if needed.

--
Steve W.

For practice on techniques the cheap string plugs are good. They will even work on a good repair as long as you prep the hole correctly.

I have a variety of different repair materials depending on the tire and it's intended use.

A mushroom plug gun that works great as a quick plug, and they get used a lot on lawn, ATV and golf cart tires.

Good string plugs -

combo patch/plugs and boots, plus various other supplies.

--
Steve W.

On Thu, 22 Dec 2016 00:55:50 -0500, Steve W. advised:

Thanks Steve. I didn't know it at first but now I know that you want the patch/plug to be in the area within the steel circumferential belts.

Apparently the edge of the belts is a DMZ of sorts though ...

On Wed, 21 Dec 2016 20:36:19 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca advised:

And don't run with scissors in your hand!

On Thu, 22 Dec 2016 01:11:13 -0500, Steve W. advised:

That's good advice.

As for "prepping" the hole, all I know is you're supposed to "ream" it with the auger provided in the kit.

That auger worked for larger (bolt) holes but small nail holes were too small. I needed *power*.

I'm wondering if I can slice off the auger and put it in a drill. Anyone done that?

My home patch kit contains: a. T-handled auger & insertion tools b. Grease pen (white) c. Pliers (needlenose) d. Patches e. Vulcanizing cement f. scraper (wire brush works faster)

What else is needed? (ah, I see the answer below)

Ah, that would be a nice tool to have! It's fast - but for home use, we don't really need fast.

I wonder if it fits the RMA (rubber manufacturers association) guidelines which seem to require a patch and a plug whereas this is mostly just a plug.

Interesting that their string plugs are nylon yarn, with 250% rubber!

That's a very nice site for tools and supplies!

I love the fact the standard (we can assume that's P type?) wheel weights are inexpensive, at about $7 for a box of 25 which is about 30 cents each.

A box of 50 1-1/2 inch 0.453-inch diameter rubber valve stems is $16 which is about 30 to 35 cents each.

It's interesting they have "euro style" and "usa style" radial tubeless tire patches (what's the difference? Is it just metric sizes?) at

I *love* that site as it seems to have all that we need (I am looking for a better wire buffing brush, for example).

On Wed, 21 Dec 2016 20:28:28 -0700, rbowman advised:

If this group were named ladies.cookies_and_crochet, then the question wouldn't be apropos of how to decide when a tire is repairable.

If I were the only driver on the planet, and never drove closer than 500 me ters from another living creature, this discussion might be relevant at the level of detail incurred so far.

But, I drive on crowded roads with other drivers who have lives of their ow n. And the occasional school bus with a few dozen children on board. And the occasional fluids-tanker or propane tanker with flammable and explo sive materials on board.

So, here we are on the Pennsylvania Turnpike (Speed Limit: 70). And my left

-front tire shatters on a curve. I start spinning into the other lane and w affle a school bus into a gasoline tanker. *POOF*.

Turns out that the tire-removal, patching, balancing and re-installation we re all mine, using Harbor Freight tools based on advice received in this ve nue.

What is my ethical position? Pretty wretched in any case, and probably crim inal.

It is very clear, at least to me, that this idiot in search of a village ha s the ethics of a politician, the morals of an evangelical preacher and the wisdom of a common housefly. And all this blather is about avoiding 'bad n ews' and having to take responsibility for his actions. Why would I go to a mechanic to align my vehicle, patch a tire or do any number of other fairl y simple tasks? Because that mechanic is trained to see things that I do no t. That mechanic (and ours are very, very good) will tell me what I need to know whether I like it or not. And my mechanic DOES use the right tool for the job, does not accept "good enough" and more.

Do not engage with this creature. It will ask and ask and ask the same ques tion in many different ways and in many different venues until it gets the answer it wants. And then it will take action based on that answer and take those results out on the road with other innocents, hang the consequences. I hope, when Horatio/Norman/John/frank is finally awarded his richly deser ved, far-to-long delayed Darwin Award, it is a solo action and does not inv olve group participation.

Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA

Someone told him he would be re-tiring soon, so he wants to learn how from the experts here. Someone should explain to him what was really meant.

Oh, 63 million Brits equal the output of a billion-plus Indians? Wake me if anything exciting turns up.

--
Andrew Muzi 
   
  Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Thu, 22 Dec 2016 06:41:59 -0800 (PST), trader_4 advised:

Actually, I think I have all the necessary tools but this one:

Having used the hand scraper and the wire brush, I see that it would be a

*lot* easier to use these "buffing cones" because the shape of those cones would better conform to the shape of the inside of the wheel.

So the advice I give to anyone reading this thread in the future to assist them in doing the repair is to get one of those buffing cones.

You won't find them in a typical hardware store though, I don't think (at least I didn't).