Help with floundering son

Hi all, The Sig Gen for guitar amps started me thinking.

My son is floundering, after two years at a university he has decided that's not what he wants. I guess I could say I knew that from the start, mom didn't. I would have liked to see him finish and then flounder with job prospects, but he didn't. He keeps saying he has an interest in music, he plays guitar, talks about mixing but has no equipment except a computer. I've got about $25,000 into his education so far and don't mind spending some more to get him on a track. What are some job categories in music, music recording, studio recording. I don't know! What should he be learning? I know this is very open ended, because he doesn't know what he wants. Just venting and looking for ideas, he will do what he wants when he finds it, but I figure my job is to put things in his path until he trips on something. As I told him when he went to college, explore everything on campus until you find what tweaks you! I think he played video games instead.

Any Ideas?

Thanks, Dad

Reply to
amdx
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Armed forces including the CG.

Reply to
Tom Miller

I had a similar problem with a former ladyfriend's son. He was studying to be an architect, but preferred to play guitar with his friends. At one point, he announced that he was dropping out of college to become a professional musician. His mother panicked and volunteered me to talk to him on the assumption that my sledge hammer style of diplomacy and tactless pragmatism might have some effect.

I expected a long dragged out battle, but instead found the right pitch line on the first try. It told him that I knew plenty of architects that play guitar on the side, but no guitarists that dabble in architectural design on the side. I didn't even have to threaten him with being grounded, disinherited and thrown out of the house. He eventually finished college, apprenticed with the strangest architectural firm in the area, got married (twice), and is now gainfully employed. He occasionally plays the guitar.

Throwing good money after bad? Unfortunately, you may need to do that anyway. Which would you rather pay, tuition or bail money? The real problem is that if quits now, even temporarily, the odds are very much against him ever going back to college.

This is all very familiar to me. I wanted to write music instead of becoming an engineer. However, in the late 1960's, the decision was easy. I could go to college, study something that qualifies for a student deferment, or I could play soldier in Viet Nam. The decision was a no-brainer. In retrospect, I was a fairly lousy composer and worse musician, but that wasn't obvious to me at the time.

He should be studying anything EXCEPT music. I've watched several kids grow up to be musicians of various sorts. It was study music

100% of their time. Only the very best make money doing music, which incidentally requires a well placed mentor. If he fails to make the grade for entrance into one of the top conservatories, he's going nowhere.

He wants the opposite of whatever you want.

I think you should introduce him to the merits of alternative employment, such as those found on the TV series "Dirty Jobs". I suspect that he'll find something less disgusting rather quickly. Otherwise, just throw him out of the house and let him discover the value of holding a job.

Exploring what the college has to offer is like going to Disneyland for a reality check. College is not real. My illusions of what an engineer did on the job were very different from what I "learned" in college. (Details on request). Unless he's worked his way through college with relevent jobs in the "real world", he's not going to find anything in college.

Just one. Don't let him quit college. Use a carrot, stick, bribe, or threats, whatever it takes to keep him in skool. However, if he quits, keep the money and teach him Spanish so he can get a job at McDonald's.

Sheesh... talk about off topic.

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Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
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Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

** Wot an unintended consequence .....
** There are private colleges in most big cities the offer courses in audio engineering, audio production and related subjects. If your boy gets a cer tificate from one AND also has diploma in education - he could get a cushy job working for one of these institutions.
** Well, you could buy him a wet suit, snorkel and spear gun.

Then he could make his living out of "floundering" ....

... Phil

Reply to
Phil Allison

What would you have told him if his major had been art history?

Reply to
larrymoencurly

So,...he never countered with the story about Jay Leno? Jay and his friends were doing clubs to hone their art of comedy. His friends ALL kept their day jobs, but Jay quit his. With NO way back, he becme a bit successful, where as all his friends, having a 'lifeline' never went very far in comedy. [as related by Jay Leno]

Reply to
RobertMacy

At some point, one has to decide between their day job and their passion. The difference between Jay Leno, my architect, and I is that Jay Leno is very good at comedy, while my architect friend and I were quite mediocre at music. If he's good, encourage him. If he's lousy, divert him to something else.

I hadn't heard the story about Jay Leno, but I can see a few problems. The inspiration to bail out of a day job and go full time into entertainment or music is usually inspired by a mentor, agent, talent scout, or club owner. Like everything else, it's not what you know or can do, but rather whom you know, good timing, attitude, and good timing. The common term is "lucky break". A career commitment can probably happen in a vacuum, but I doubt this one did. It's like cats. Cats pick their own owners. Careers pick their own players.

Also, there's always a "way back" if comedy had failed. When you're young, the job opportunities are much better than as we get older. Jay could have gone back to pumping gasoline or whatever with little effort.

Incidentally, I suspect that the difference between Jay Leno and the rest of his crowd is that he's good at both delivery and writing his monologs. He was forced to go back to writing his own stuff by the writers strike in 2008, and did quite well.

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Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com 
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558
Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

I'll answer if you tell me why my answer might be useful or relevent.

Locally, we have something even better than art history called "History of Conciousness". Graduates are appointed by Obama to high positions, so it's not totally useless: Graduates of the History of Consciousness Department find employment in a range of disciplines, including literature, women's studies, ethnic studies, American studies, sociology, anthropology, communication, and philosophy. History of Consciousness graduates have also found positions outside academic institutions as researchers, writers, filmmakers, curators, organizers and administrators.

--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com 
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558
Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

That's good; I thought the rest of the world had enough difficulty defining "Conciousness"!

Is "better" used ironically?

Mike.

Reply to
Mike

I know and have known so many people who are so damn good at music it is no t funny. However none of them are making any real money off of it. One guy plays practically everything rock, and actually wrote and performed ALL par ts of songs, and sounds great. Layed down the drum track, then the bass, th en the rhythm guitar, then lead, keyboard and then sang it. Has a band and gets some gigs at bars and stuf.

But to pay the bills he lays ceramic tile.

Life hasn't caught up to music yet with one percent of the people having mo st of the money. In the music biz it is more like a tenth of a percent if t hat. Guy I work with, DAMN, talk about playing guitar. I heard chords he pl ayed justy screwing round tht I did not know COULD be played on a guitar.

To pay the bills he fixes guitars.

Living in the limelight, The universal dream, For those who wish to seem, Those who wish to be, Must... (Rush)

Must have alot of luck and connections. The people who run the music busine ss now are not what they once were. The game is rigged in favor of their fo lks. What's more, if you can paly as well as the pros, you are a dime a doz en. To really get anywhere you have to actually compose music and that is h arder than it looks. There is already so much music already done, almost ev erything you listen to is a remake, or in some cases adapted from a part of the great works by the likes of Beethoven and such. It is likely everythin g you do has been done.

I know a guy calls Jimi Hendrix a secong rate blues guitarist. Youy hear hi m play and you see that he has the right to say that. Very good, his rendit ion of playing and singing Stairway To Heaven with an acoustic guitar is fa ntastic. If it hadn 't been done before he could BE Led Zepplin.

If he had the proper connectionns.

Music is fun. I like to do it when I have just the right buzz and get in th e mood. I finally got to the point where I can play and sing at the same ti me, which is harder than it looks I found. But it is never going to make me a dime. I work for a music store now and none of them people are rich exce pt for the owner of the place maybe. The music lessons I think are like $30 an hour. I made that much fixing TVs.

There is one thiong though, someone who likes playing music understands a f orm of math. The chords and shit. They could be adapted for engineering or building things.

Trade school.

Don't l;ook at me in that tone of voice, yes, trade school. It is not demea ning or anything, you know how much money plumbers make ? Union bricklayers . If you are in good shape and not afraid of working hard them guys make mo ney. Both make more than most newbie engineers. The union usually runs the trade school and once you get that journeyman card you are employable. And if a hundred grand a year isn't enough you can go to other countries and ma ke twice or thrice that.

There is a youtube video out there call "College Conspiracy", if you can fi nd it it is worth the watch. What they're selling is one thing. What you're getting is another. The fact is you need speacial skills to really make it in this economy now. you need to have to be able to DO somethinng and that is not going to be plucking zither strings or whatever. Closest guy I know to making money playing a guitar actually sometimes goes out in front of t he brick and mortar and plays out there to attract attention. A marketing g immick.

It's just how it is.

Good luck with the kid. As bad as it seems, at least he is interested in so mething. Many have no interest at all except to get high and f*ck. So it's not all bad. He just needs to realize reality. The music business sucks, an d now it sucks worse because of digital. Record sales ? There are no record stores ! Between P2P and youtube, they can't sttop the hemorrage of money.

OK, enough.

Reply to
jurb6006

Certainly depends on the college and the major...but... I expect college to teach you how to THINK. (military teaches you how to follow orders) I don't like history/art type majors because they teach you what someone else did. Not totally useless, but critical thinking is more useful.

I learned more useful/practical stuff the first week on the job from an excellent mentor than I did in five years of engineering school. But if I hadn't had the background, I wouldn't have been able to comprehend my mentor.

Smoking pot and playing video games is not "going to college." Maybe a tiered approach. Let the military teach him how to follow orders, then order him to go to college. You can always do whatever you want after a basic education.

You may have started too late. My dad had a basic college education, a blue-collar job and a TV repair business on the side. He bought me a Heathkit short wave radio kit somewhere around age 8. He steered me toward ham radio. He paid me 50-cents to check all the tubes in a TV. I had to keep accounts of my work and payments. One day, he just took me aside and taught me long division. He got me a job after school at a friend's TV shop. I never thought about it at the time, but he may have been paying my salary under the table. There was never any question whether I'd be an engineer. Wasn't my choice. Nobody told me to do it. It just happened...thanks to my dad.

Reply to
mike

Cute little play on words.

I'm surrounded by people earning money fishing, a few are doing very, some making a living, and most don't own a car and live with someone else when the boat isn't out. Some of those could have a little if they didn't drink and use drugs when they hit land. (not saying they don't take them with them fishing) He has not shown interest in fishing, and that's ok. 40 year old fishermen look like they're 55. Mikek

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Reply to
amdx

Maybe, I always had a bench setup with voltmeter, scope, sig gen, power supplies, and parts. Showed him ohms law, and verified it. He was ahead of me in math, so it was a breeze, when I needed help I ask him. We once made an electric motor. As a project I suggested we build an electric go kart. We did, but dad did most of the work, but I did run through motor, axle ratio, tire circumference, speed calcs, and he understood. he and the neighbor kids had fun. I will say from the start both kids new they were going to college, my daughter graduated H.S. 4th out of a 430 class. Somewhere around 10th or

11th grade, I figured out my son was probably smarter than my daughter, he just didn't do anymore work than he had to. His grades got him into a good university but he didn't work at it. Now I think it's just video games and laziness that have brought him to a halt. Mikek
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Reply to
amdx

Art history is not exactly a major with a high rate of return in the job market, and graduates often have less than no vocational skills. And because neither students nor employers like the major, why encourage its study?

They can't go back to calling all those majors "humanities"?

Reply to
larrymoencurly

Are you saying Jay Leno should have kept his day job, and maybe the late night TV tragedy he ran for two decades would have never happened?

Reply to
larrymoencurly

Find a (large as possible) PA hire company that wants some free or poorly paid labour. This will be a lot of fun. (loading trucks, going to gigs, roadying hard and enjoying it)

If he is really interested, he will closely watch and talk to the engineers, learn a huge amount he never knew existed, and eventually be trusted to take on live sound work and be properly paid for it.

Gareth.

Reply to
Gareth Magennis

College is not a place for job training. It is to make the individual a better citizen, as much as anything. To the extent an educated populace benefits society as a whole, state universities should be free. Plumbing and changing bedpans are the big jobs going forward; don't need a degree for either.

Reply to
dave

I hired my son when he couldn't find a job after graduating with a BA in Economics. He doesn't live at home so he pays rent, has a steady girlfriend, does everything one expects when living on their own, and he is learning a trade. I don't expect him to continue in my field for too much longer, but in the meantime we can talk and he has a breather while he figures out his priorities. Plus he gets training in repairing equipment, practical computer applications (online store), dealing with customers, etc.

Not every parent has that luxury - being able to hire/train one's offspring - so it is not a panacea, but it is at least helping him.

John :-#)#

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Reply to
John Robertson

Ya, just because you got a college degree doesn't guarantee a job. (Obama economy) We can put him to work in our small business, however, all he will learn is what it's like to deal with the public! Oh, and maybe he would figure out he could earn 4 x as much if he got a degree. Mikek

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Reply to
amdx

Nothing to do with Obama, that situation was set up by Bush - if you want to get political. Of course in Canada folks blame Harper (current PM) or Trudeau (70s - 90s popular PM) or Mulroney (brought in Free Trade with USA - Ha!). So, you can blame anyone you like.

However politicians can only do what the people approve, be it Bush, Harper, Obama, Mendela, Putin...otherwise we kick them out and get some new 'leader' to show the way the population is heading. Scary, eh?

Larry Niven (right wing SF author) kinda had it right where his cleverest aliens - the Puppeteers' - leader was called "The Hindmost" as they lead for the rear, in other words they followed the crowd.

John :-#)#

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(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the newsgroup) 
John's  Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 
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                      www.flippers.com 
        "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
Reply to
John Robertson

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