Anyone else coming across this ? Twice in about 2 months, an owner of new music kit wanting me to repair intermittant faults after being used only a few times from new. So loosing his warranty rights. 2 different companies , reason for first owner foregoing his rights, unknown. This second time owner was quoted 2 months minimum turn around, sending back to the factory (import/asembly plant) in another part of the country, but otherwise no charge. Is there an excessive number of returns these days or what is the reason?
Yes. It's a major source of my business. Usually it's someone who has purchased an extended warranty with onsite repair, that is on try #3 to get it fixed right. Some things just can't be done at the customers home or office. Similarly, with purchases of Apple Care, who really don't want to wait up to 4 months to get their whatever fixed. If they really need their computer to working now, they'll forego the warranty and deal with a disreputable but fast repair person like me.
It's the 2 month delay that is probably the primary incentive. A friend, looking over my shoulder, casually mentioned that it took a large telescope manufacturer about 7 months to return his telescope for out of warranty repair. Delays are also not very consistent. I've seen amazingly fast turn around by HP and Dell on warranty repairs (usually exchange for another repaired unit), followed by atrocious delays the next month, sometimes losing the item. My guess is that all these vendors are using outsourced repair facilities, which are having their own problems ranging from too much business (overload), to variations on ineptitude.
Locally, the various authorized service centers, are constantly complaining about delivery delays on replacement components. Their contract with the manufacturer requires that they use only brand new parts, obtained directly from the manufacturer. No eBay or cannibalized parts. So, the customers waits, even though the missing part is sitting only a few feet away.
Drivel: You have no idea how many laptop hinges I repair. Actually, I have no idea either as I don't keep count, but it's plenty. Broken hinges seem to be a problem. Some vendors cover them under warranty, while others claim that since their hinges are perfect, it must be customer abuse that caused them to break apart.
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# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com jeffl@cruzio.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS
You have inspired me to maybe create something similar.
The audio gear I see and repair is all used in live entertainment, both portable and installed systems.
At least 90% of the failures are CAUSED by careless an continuous abuse of the gear - I consider turning all the knobs on a Marshall up to 10 and thrashing it to death to be in that category.
So, my repair guarantee goes like this:
" I guarantee that if you continue to abuse any item I have repaired for you OR do again the same stupid thing that caused it to fail before - it is GUARANTEED to fail again.
The usual service charges apply to all items covered under this guarantee. "
"they'll forego the warranty and deal with a disreputable but fast repair person like me. "
I don't think that should be called disreputable. If you mean disreputable with the manufacturer, just how reputable are they ? This is not an automatic toenail polisher, some people actually use tools to make money. If they need it and you fix it, and they pay you - WHAT is disreputable about that ?
Know why I don't buy tools from Sears, a reputable compnay ? Well they used to Xray their handtools and they never broke (almost). That was fine with me. But they stopped. Now I have been under a car with a transmission on my chest. What good is a warranty then ? I need the tool NOW. What's more a coworker and I bought Craftsman drill/drivers. The triggers would always fail. They weren't covered and we payed out of pocket for them, AND had to change them ourselves. About the third or fourth trip that guy asks " What are you doing to this thing ? ". Smitty answered "Work". The guy says "If I knew you were going to use it for work I would've sold you the Makita".
My car doesn't run. Now why the hell do you think I got in my car ? I wanted to go somewhere. I don't care about the friggin million mile warranty, I only want to go ten miles let's say. But I want to go there now. If I wanted to get there WHENEVER I wouldn't need a car, just call a cab, take a bus or a bicycle, maybe even walk. If I wanted to walk I wouldn't have given you all that damn money.
** Think Jeff L had his tongue firmly in his cheek when he referred to himself as "disreputable".
Because Jeff L has apparently not sought or been granted "Authorised Repairer " status for any brands - he might be seen as disreputable by some people. As with many things, the direct opposite is actually the case.
So called "Authorised Repairers" are under the most odious kinds of contract which force them to become aligned with the maker's or importer's demands and whims rather than their own or their customer's natural interests.
Few if any customers understand this difference and falsely imagine they are still dealing with a normal repairer.
A normal repairer charges for every job, will tell customers what they found wrong and how to avoid a repeat. They also do their best to avoid returns under repair warranties - so shonky " patch up " repairs are just not on. If the item is clearly a lemon, they will gently point that out too.
OTOH contract warranty repairers do not charge, tell the customer nothing ( or else a pack of bull ) and do work that need only last until the maker's warranty period expires. They will not openly criticise anything sold under the brand names they are contracted to work on - no matter how awful it is.
IOW, a contracted repairer is at permanently at war with his own customers.
I can hardly imagine any situation more *disreputable*.
"So called "Authorised Repairers" are under the most odious kinds of contract "
You can say that again. But again the so called benefits being an illusion will show sooner or later. The key is understanding the goal. I am still a serviceman, but I am also a businessman now. I don't put my name on things, but I am involved. Any ASC would cringe at some of the things I've done. Though few or none were in the capacity of an ASC, my loyaly always resided with the customer. That's MY customer, untill I might need to correspond with a manufacturer, then they are "our" customer. It can almost be said that to be honest one needs to be dishonest.
I have realized that the goals of the manufacturer are daimetrically opposed to those of the servicer. They have always acted in that fashion because the goal has not changed. The methods now are overcomplication and planned obsolescense. These are alot harder to fight, but what else will we do ?
They are getting good, and some make it now by swapping boards. They are so good that it is getting hard to tell which board to swap. In the old days you could make money with a bag of 6GH8s, but now to get the right board you might have to know if the set was built on a Monday or a Thursday. Change is not for the sake of change, it is for the sake of currency.
EVERY time their product is repaired, they lose out on a sale. They have formed conglomerates and cooperations, but don't dare use the word conspiracy unless you are among those priveledged to define it. This country is a dumping ground. A DLP sold around Easter fails around Thanksgiving the same year. Parts are no longer available. The customer is told by the Attourney General's office that if he pursues his own claim he is excluded from any possible class action lawsuit. Who's side are they on ? They are effectively preventing lawsuits which would be a matter of public record.
I have thought this out stem to stern in my 35 years in the business, and I think my conclusions sound. Nothing will happen without legislation. Some places in Europe have product support laws, and lower prescription prices (let's just not go there right now). But somehow these companiers can make money there. It's just that they can make more money here.
Forcing the issue, well it makes no sense. It will happen anyway, TVs costing two grand are junk in a year ? How long do you think people are going to put up with that with no secure jobs, and therefore no stable and sustainable credit ? And even with that, what happens when they are paying off goods that have been in a dumpster for a year ?
I say let it happen by itself. And that is my considered conclusion. A few will hang on, and we'll be well better off for it. Don't get mad, get bad.
From the manufacturers point of view, there are two types of repair shops. Those that have elected to jump through the hoops and obstacles of the authorized dealer network, and everyone else. Since I'm not authorized by any company to do anything, I'm in the latter category and considered to be de facto incompetent due to the lack of training that usually comes with being authorized.
The lack of a certificate from the manufacturer attesting to my competence. I've never found it really necessary to be authorized, blessed, or otherwise approved for any manner of repair. When I've actually tried to become and authorized dealer or repair center, I usually manage to make a muddle of it.
Times have changed. These days, everything is made in China. If you want quality, look elsewhere but at perhaps 5-10 times the price. I have my set of Craftsman hand tools from the 1970's, that have never failed. I don't loan those to anyone. I have my assortment of Home Depot junk tools, that I'm more than happy to loan to the neighborhood kids, knowing that they'll get trashed. However, I can buy 5 of those for the price of one real Proto hand tool.
Incidentally, I use quite a few Craftsman 8" #2 Philips (41296) screw drivers. I recently bought two from the local Sears store, where I had to regrind the tip so that it would properly fit a #2 screw head.
Nope. You're worrying about the wrong things. The real problem, in my never humble opinion, is not product quality, but that we're putting high tech devices in the hands of people with no clue how to use them, much less how to take care of them. The only way to avoid the necessary education, while still supplying the absolute cheapest product, it with a warranty. In short, a warranty is being supplied in place of a quality product and a consumer education system.
My favorite example is the cell phone. I have a small side business repairing these and supplying spares and replacements. None of them are built to be repaired, so that's a challenge. Yet, the condition of most of the phones I see are so bad, that were it any other product, I would claim that the owner was intentionally abusing the device. With an average lifetime of about 18 months for a consumer dumb phone, the level of quality need not be much above minimal.
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# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com jeffl@cruzio.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS
** ROTFL - I doubt there is even one importer or manufacturer in Australia capable of making that determination with any accuracy. After all, how would any of them know ?? They are NOT operating repair businesses, have no understanding of them and generally take no interest in the topic.
Anecdote:
One time, back in the 80s, I worked for a repair business that had "authorised" service arrangements for several brands of guitar amp - including Marshall, Acoustic and ELFA.
The Greek lunatic who imported Acoustic into Australia decided that he could " micro-manage " the servicing of his brand by making up " kits " of spare parts that all service techs would have to buy to repair various classes of fault. All one needed to do was tell HIM the fault scenario and he would nominate the kit that you needed to purchase. Ordering individual parts as required was simply no longer an option.
He claimed to me on the phone that all the auto importers and makers were doing the same thing and it was more " efficient ". Soooo, I told him about the fault in the unit I had on the bench - that it suffered from loud, very intermittent crackling noises. After a long pause, he said to ship the unit down to him, in Melbourne, 500 miles away.
The boss and I did no such stupid thing, of course.
Anecdote 2.
A Melbourne based maker of guitar amps ( ELFA) had issues with their latest models:
The quad op-amps ( all RC4136s) in the pre-amp section were from a faulty batch ( rejects?) with about a 50% failure rate in the first 3 months. The maker had earmarked all their remaining stock for manufacture and REFUSED to supply any spares to us for warranty repairs.
Some nut case, probably as an after thought, had fitted stereo headphone sockets to the amps with no series limiting resistors. The left and right earphone connections were simply linked to the internal amplifier module and the speaker connected itself when there was no plug in place.
Soooo, soon as anyone plugged a mono jack into the headphone socket - bang went the Sanken 60 watt amp module inside. Then, soon as the mono plug was removed, a 40 volt DC rail was linked to the 12 inch speaker and burnt it out.
The 12 inch speaker was made right here in Sydney and despite the scenario being non warrantee, the people in Melbourne wanted US to send the 6 kg wrecks down to them for appraisal before they would agree to supply a new one.
The boss told them to shove it.
From then on, we sourced all needed parts ourselves ( including speakers) got Marshall and Fender mains and output transformers re-wound as needed and saved ourselves and our customers a lot of grief. We did no more warranty work.
Is this the scenario. These companies import populated boards from China etc and asssemble in this country ( England). Apart from a designer there may be no one technical enough in the assembly plant to do repair. Which is fine when there are plenty of new units around to send out as in-warranty replacements. But that only works if the rate of returns is say 2 percent , the returns sold on in that specialist auction house in Nottingham . But if the returns is more like 10 percent then it will impact on the viability of the company
I'm curious. My current cell phone -- a Korean Lucky Goldstar -- is almost five years old. Never had problems with it, and it's in great shape. (I rarely abuse my purchases.) What, exactly, are the things you see that suggest products -- cell phones or otherwise -- are abused?
On a related note... I was talking with a friend who's my age, and owns a company that makes consumer audio equipment. He agreed with me that pride of ownership has largely disappeared. Nothing seems to be of lasting value. Products become obsolete after only a few months.
Mechanical damage, broken hinges, scratched screens, fingernails through the key tops, mangled connector covers, broken antennas, cracked earphone connectors, cracked power/accessory connectors, water damage, dirt, filth, crud, good, pogs, labels, cracked case, bulging batteries, etc.
These are some of the recent arrivals, after some cleaning. The really beat up phones, I don't bother trying to fix (unless I need the parts). My guess is that I have about 150 phones in stock.
Other vendors:
etc...
Incidentally, LG phones are generally good quality, fairly easy to fix, and tend to survive. I've had problems with the ENV2 models falling apart. I'm currently using an LG VX-8300.
Products are obsolete on arrival. The next generation and possibly one or two generations after that are in the design, manufacture, and distribution chain when the current version hits the market. Because the obvious answer to any problems with the current model is to just wait for the "new and improved" model that follows, there's no incentive to fix any of the first generation problems.
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# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com jeffl@cruzio.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS
About two weeks prior to my receiving it - a whole container of yoghurt ( flavour unknown) had leaked over it while in a woman's handbag. The woman concerned had then only wiped it over with a cloth and noted it did not work.
She left the battery inside - so of course it was ruined.
My own mobile has copped a spillage of bleach and also of liquid detergent in a similar way - but by immediately removing the battery and rinsing it with warm water, it lives to fight another day.
Why is it that no maker ever gives advice on what to do if your pocket digital wonder gets accidentally immersed or suffers a spillage ??
Get the damn battery OUT immediately - then rinse and dry it pronto.
Have you noticed that most cell phones have rounded corners and bottoms? The rounded corner distributes the inpact load over a larger area of the case than it would if it were more box shaped. However, that doesn't seem to be a design feature in smartphones, which more closely resemble a box due to the requirement of having a large rectangular screen. Drop a smart phone, and they're history. The number of cracked screens on the iPhone and Droid should offer a clue. They do have somewhat rounded corners, but with a metal frame, any edge impact transfers directly to the glass screen.
There are some better ideas, but these will need to wait for a change in public acceptance of what a cell phone should look like:
etc...
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Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Because they want you to destroy their product so that you'll buy a new one. Every product that is repaired is one less product that is sold.
If you're into ecology and conservation, repair is a good thing. If you're into designed obsolescence, then it's a bad thing.
The common perception among cell phone vendors and manufacturers is that the condition and disposition of the phone, AFTER IT'S SOLD, is not their problem. If you trash the phone, unless you've purchased the overpriced extended equipment warranty, it's your problem, not theirs. In most cases, they don't even bother to repair the wet phone, and simply issue a replacement (or try to sell you an upgrade). I suppose safety might be a possible justification for removing the battery, but selling the customer a new phone is far more profitable.
I suppose we could include some verbage in the voluminous book of legal disclaimers and limitations of responsibility that seems to be included with all consumer products these days. Removing the battery would fit nicely between "Do not eat the phone" and "Do not go swimming with your cell phone".
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Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Near the bottom of the page: "Motorola Razr: Do not try to dry your phone in a microwave" Well, it's a start.
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Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
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