Do you have the electronics skills to design a good home made smoke machine?

All we need to find vacuum leaks in a complex engine is a smoke machine that works. All it needs to do is... a. Emit lots of smoke that won't clog up an engine when it condenses, and, b. Constantly push that smoke at a couple of psi for about a half hour.

We made a smoke machine to work on a friend's kid's old bimmer but the smoke machine we made failed to generate enough smoke. And now I need a smoke machine.

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It seems so simple, and yes, we've seen the "cigar in a can" and "burning rags in a can" videos but they all have problems of not generating enough smoke for a long enough period of time.

Our machine generates smoke for a long time but not enough smoke! :(

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It's 3 holes in a new paint can with glycerin in a soup can inside.

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The top has a 12VDC diesel glow plug which gets red hot. It is stuck into the glycerin in a soup can. That generates the smoke.

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We push that smoke out regulated at about 3 psi with an air gun mounted on the side.

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There's just not enough smoke.

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Do you know what fluid would generate more non-sticky smoke? Or do you know of a hundred dollar smoke machine that can do the two thing? a. Emit lots of smoke that won't clog up an engine when it condenses, and, b. Constantly push that smoke at a couple of psi for about a half hour.

Reply to
Arthur Wood
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Cheers

Phil Hobbs

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Dr Philip C D Hobbs 
Principal Consultant 
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Reply to
Phil Hobbs

I thank you for coming to my aid, and I apologize for not having "believed" in your previous suggestion. (See below why.)

For some reason, I had thought that the "party foggers" had a big opening at low pressure (like the size you can put your hand through) but this one in the Amazon picture seems to have a one-inch opening with a tiny 1/4-inch nozzle.

Is that right?

If so, I don't see why it's not perfect for the task - if it generates the smoke at enough of a pressure to get us a couple of psi for a long period of time. It has to be in the goldilocks range of a few psi (maybe 2 to 4 psi?).

The output is 2000 CFM, which seems like a lot. Is there a way to *convert* that to PSI?

The "wired control" might even be useful for one-man operation while debugging a vaccum leak on an engine.

The machine holds 0.5 liters (1/8 gallon) where a gallon of the fog juice (propylene glycol perhaps?) is $20 which means the machine, over time, is cheaper than the fluid used to make the smoke!

So I do agree, for forty something bucks, it's about the same cost as what it cost me to make that tin-can smoke machine that didn't work.

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Any idea how to calculate the PSI out from the 2000CFM spec?

Reply to
Arthur Wood

Arthur Wood posted for all of us...

From reading replies you don't any research on anything before posting, then you argue and ask more questions. Are you a previous poster under another name?

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Tekkie
Reply to
Tekkie®

then

Very probably.

Horatio Alger Norman Spruance John Harmon Frank Bacon Frank Baron

All come to mind. All of them not half-bad mechanics with a fascination wit h Harbor Freight tools. However, it is that lacking half that is most likel y to kill someone. I sincerely hope that this BMW never sees a public road again, for that reason.

I once stated that I would never drive a BMW. There are two reasons why:

Reason 1:

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ed-worst-on-road-poll

Reason 2: BMWs are wanna be cars. They wanna be a Porsche, they wanna be a Mercedes, but achieve neither status.

Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA

Reply to
pfjw

How did you come up with that number?

Not really. Most likely they are using a fan designed to move air against very little pressure, like the "muffin" fans in a PC. They will move a decent volume of air at very low pressure, but the air flow falls off very quickly as the pressure increases. The only way to know for sure is to get the spec sheet of the fan.

Here is a spec sheet of a typical DC cooling fan.

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Notice the flow goes to zero at pressures around 0.1 inches of H2O. Your 2 psi would be 55 inches of H2O.

Maybe they are using a different type of fan, but I don't think you are going to get 2 psi from one of these machines. Maybe you could rig your compressor to it to boost the pressure.

The same cost for something that also isn't likely to work without modification.

See above...

--
Rick C 

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms, 
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Reply to
rickman

You can calculate the PSI if you know the viscosity of the fluid and the size of the orifice the fluid has to pass through. So you will need to guess at the size of the orifice on the party smoke machine and then look online for about 5 minutes to find a page that will let you just plug the numbers in. I am pretty sure that searching for a "conversions" web site will provide you with a solution. Why do you need 2 to 4 PSI? Eric

Reply to
etpm

In the US new BMWs are a semiotic signal by nouveau riche whackoffs to other nouveau riche whackoffs that they've achieved whackoff status.

Old BMWs usually have their windows tinted, fart-can exhaust installed, and a big wing put on the back and are driven by kiddos who wanna look flush. Those are on the road until they're wrecked or the repair estimate for their first major mechanical issue comes in. Usually doesn't take long.

Reply to
bitrex

It's not that BMWs are bad cars, exactly, it's just that for people who actually care about luxury and/or performance vs. brand bling there are better cars available in just about every segment from other marques, for similar prices

Reply to
bitrex

Why are you concerned with PSI. AIUI, you only need enough pressure to get the smoke out of the machine, or out of the hose**. Plainly it has that much pressure, or the machine wouldn't function for its original purpose.

After that the smoke just has to float around near the vacuum leak and the vacuum will suck it into the engine.

If anything too much pressure would make the smoke zoom by the leak without stopping. LOL Well, not unless it was r eally fast, you'd still probably see some of it get waylaid and sucked into the engine

**Or are you saying it needs enough pressure to get through the hose? The pictures don't show it being used with a hose, but if it doesn't have enough pressure to get it through the hose, then skip the hose and just blow from the machine to the engine. You can put the machine on a chair or stepladder if need be. You can hold it closer to the engine if need be.

The pictures show the smoke going out 3 feet or more. That seems like enough pressure to me, and a bigger problem is likely that there is too much smoke. Is that why you want to use a hose? If there's too much, cut a hole in a big piece of paper near the engine so that only so much can get through the hole. It's not like you have to do this for 50,000 miles, only long enough to find the vacuum leak.

No.

Typically, fog is created by vaporizing proprietary water and glycol-based or glycerin-based fluids or through the atomization of mineral oil. This fluid (often referred to colloquially as fog juice) vaporizes or atomizes inside the fog machine.

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Reply to
micky

Not really possible to be really accurate. You could determine how much poressure is required by calculating the velocity of the fog escaping from the nozzle size and roughly approxemate the pressure utilized to force that flow, but that won't tell you the pressure capability of the system. (it might put out 2000 cfm of smoke at

1/2PSI, and be capable of pumping 1000cfm at 2.5psi, for example.
Reply to
Clare Snyder

They don't use a fan. They use a liquid pump to squirt the fluid through the heater, which vapourizes , producing steam pressure. No fan. I have onem and I've had it apart. The poressure is reasonable, but I'd say less than 5 psi. Commercial smokemachiners run somewhere around 1 - 2 PSI maximum.

The only olproblem I see is getting the HOT smoke (really more like steam) into the fuel system you are testing. It will melt a plastic hose attached to the output - so you need an adapter that acts as a cooler as well - which WILL reduce the pressure somewhat.

\

ou are

Reply to
Clare Snyder

Again, you have NO IDEA what you are talking about, Micky. The smoke is pumped INTO the system, with the engine not running - under a low pressure to force it OUT through the leak.

Gettin in deeper, Micky

Reply to
Clare Snyder

You thinking the same guy that argued about tire mounting and ballancing???

My thought too. Mabee his twin brother from a different mother???

Reply to
Clare Snyder

I have seen people do it manually. They take a big puff on the cigar and blow into a piece of vacuum hose. It works okay if you have good enough side-lighting that you can see where the smoke is coming out.

--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Reply to
Scott Dorsey

First lose the glow plug, more smoke = more surface area for the oil to cook on. I built a paint can unit as a demo, generates a LOT of smoke, more than my Snap-On unit does.

Used nichrome wire wrapped around fiberglass tiki wicks. Wound a total of 4 coils. Two are in series and then those are in parallel with the other 2, gives you a LOT of surface area and uses under 12 amps of 12 volt current.

Next a common propane regulator. You do not want high PSI in the system, REAL easy to damage parts that cannot handle pressure. The propane regulator can take 90-200 psi and drop it to under 1/2 psi (11-12 inches of water column, OEM smoke machine standard is no higher than 13 in/wc)

Made an air bar that puts the air out in a nice even ring.

Made a low pressure check valve on the output, that way you can shut down the machine with it attached and it won't pull fuel vapor back in.

And a flow meter and adjustable flow so you can tell what is actually going on.

Basically a home built version of a red line unit.

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Steve W.
Reply to
Steve W.

A better way to detect intake leaks is to disconnect the IAC once the idle has settled down and watch the RPMs as you spray ether on the suspected lea ks.

Remember to reset the computer after such a test or it will throw a code an d probably a light.

Any smoke the engine can burn it will burn. If it can't burn it you put the catalytic convertor at risk, and they are still expensive on some cars. I know some are as cheap as like $40 for an economy car but that ain't what y ou got here. For performance cars it can run over $1,000.

So use the ether, I would say. (starting fluid that is)

Reply to
jurb6006

Is there a way to *convert* that to PSI? "

No, they are two different things, though interrelated. Kinda like watts and ohms but not the same thing.

PSI = Pounds per Square Inch.

CFM = Cubic Feet per Minute.

Reply to
jurb6006

at low pressure (like the size you can put your hand through) but this one in the Amazon picture seems to have a one-inch opening with a tiny 1/4-inch nozzle. "

Some party foggers use ethylene glycol which is kryptonite to catalytic convertors. Word to the wise - use the starting fluid method.

That is the better method, and there are very very few reasons to use smoke.

Reply to
jurb6006

need 2 to 4 PSI? "

Very good question. If it is the intake of an engine there should be a vacuum and atmospheric should do it.

Unless it is a diesel.

Reply to
jurb6006

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