Deoxt

The red was a CLEANER, was labeled as a rinse-off-after product. The contact enhancer was the blue, apply-and-forget. The enhancer works well, but the patent has expired, so Caig literature is rather obscure on the ingredient labels. DeOxit Shield S has NATO stock number NSN 6850-00-450-5821, and hasn't changed since that number was issued... 47 years ago?

Yep. I took some photos of the labels. Use your own judgment as to whether it should be rinsed off, or if you like corrosion. I'll find a tripod to take better photos later today. It's difficult to get good depth of field on a cylindrical object with a junk camera.

--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com 
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

This is one of those things for which there is no easy answer. But I'll bri ng up something here :

Slick 50.

For those overseas or simply not into cars, Slick 50 was an oil additive fo r higher mileage cars that improved performance ad extended the life of the engine. It was effective, in fact orders of magnitude more effective than anything that was on the market.

Its effects were measurable, more compression and power. Easier starting. S ometimes people claimed it made it run cooler but I don't personally know o f that ad don't really see how unless the oil pressure was so low before it was about to blow anyway.

The secret to Slick 50's success was PTFE resin, which is a for of Teflon a ctually. When put int the crankcase it coated and impregnated yous bearing surfaces, valve guides, piston rings and of course the gears in the oil pum p.

The had a pretty good run with their patent, I don't remember how many year s. During that time they had PTFE resin locked up and nobody else could sel l it. They charged like fifty bucks a quart for it. And people swore by it, they were happy to pay that because the shit simply is that good.

The patent ran out eventually and others came out with PTFE resin based eng ine treatments. Some people stuck with the original and even though they di d the price went down. They no longer had a lock on the market.

When it comes to Deoxit, people make the mistake of thinking it is removig the oxidation. It is not. The active ingredient actually removes the oxidan t (usually oxygen) from the metal. A chemist calls this type of chemical a reducer. They come in many forms, but for this application you need one tha t is totally non conductive, or at least becomes that way, and that is safe for plastics.

There are pots, sliders specifically, I have noticed on equalizers that you just can't use anything on. Some parts of them are that cheap white almost translucent plastic, I don't know if it is a type of nylon or styrene or w hat, but ANYTHING makes them sticky. And I mean anything. I tried TF based cleaner (back when you could get it), LPS2, WD40 and who knows what else. I am starting to think the propellant in the can is what attacks the stuff.

O late, I am having a problem with rotary encoders. Clean it and a few days later it is again operating erratically. I looked for them online and they seem to be like $20+, and not even optical. I can tell on the scope, when the pulse drops to zero it really is zero.

But we'll burn that bridge when we come to it. All of the units need a fact ory modification before they can be shipped or they are all going to fry. I have to burn that bridge first. At what I make now, I'll get around to it when I damn well please.

Trade secrets are bad enough in this field. So what I am getting is that th is stuff is so secret that they won't even patent it ? If they patented it you can get the formula.

The REAL problem is when they apply it to foods. Realize that in this count ry they do not tell you they put a virus in milk that attacks the bacteria that makes it go sour. Extends the shelf life. I know there is zero evidenc e of this on the net but you can prove it yourself. Just leave some milk ou t of the fridge and let it go bad. It no longer goes sour, it goes bitter.

And these milk companies in all their good hearts tried to gewt milk reclas sified as a soft drink so they could add aspartame WITHOUT LABELING IT. The y can already add anything they want but they have to label it. they wanted to sneak that shit into your kids without you knowing it. For what reason ? Best I can figure is to give them a sweet tooth sell more sweetener later .

And then there was a push to make it illegal to label food as "NON-GMO", th eir case ? That it would hurt the sales of GMO foods. And don't give me thi s "they are safe" shit, you cannot possibly know that. What's more, since t here is more yield per acre this garbage is almost completely devoid of nut rients.

Trade secrets. This is not an easy issue because if you force complete disc losure that removes alot of the incentive. You might be able to enforce int ellectual property rights here, but there is nothing stopping someone in Ch ina from copying the product and even if they can't sell it here, they can cost you the (rest of the) world market.

Maybe there is no answer and it will be a point of contention until we are extinct.

** There is simply no silver oxide formed at room temp.

** I was referring to products that use oleic or any other acid in the mix.

Even the smallest leakage current can be a disaster with electronics - track to track on PBCs or between plate and grid pins of a vacuum tube or its socket.

Products like WD40 are certain to cause no leakage.

.... Phil

The little fork-shaped things that touch the PCB are exposed to dust in those scopes. If you put any kind of lubricant, that will probably collect more dust and increase your problems. I think that is why Tek recommends a cleaner that leaves no residue that the dust could get stuck to. Why not try what Tek recommended, especially if it is still available (non-CFC).

Often on the 475 (I guess similar) the input attenuator things would have bad contact with the sockets that they are in. Just unplugging them and re-plugging them (one at a time so as not to mix them up) usually cures that, though I am willing to believe that some contact cleaner wiped just on the attenuator pins (not sprayed everywhere) might help since dust shouldn't get in there.

Chris

Funny thing about WD40 (W-ater D-isplacement, 40th try). Unlike most of the similar formulations discussed here, it is truly 100% volatile, but the ti me it takes to volatilize varies based on temperature and environment (humi dity and so forth) can be from a few minutes to several days. But, the very light mineral oil (stoddard solvent/ultra-refined kerosene) in with the pr opellants does evaporate before it decays (oxidizes). And it is the decay p roducts that can turn into a sticky mess, attract dust and otherwise cause havoc.

Most of the "badness" attributed to WD40 is from residual scum that is soft ened by the WD40, distributed throughout the system, and then rehardens int o that sticky mess when the WD goes away. Wasn't that way before, therefore it is *because of* and *due to* the WD... This is the fallacy of post hoc, ergo propter hoc, and the brute reality is that _Not Enough_ WD was used t o remove the scum entirely. Spray it on. Let it sit for 5 -10 minutes, rins e and repeat. Might be twice, might be three times, but eventually the part will be clean. No threat to plastics, no threat to metals, won't attack gr aphite binders...

Guys and gals, the stuff may be purchased in anything from small pocket spr ay cans to 55 gallon drums. Use a rechargeable spray can and one has an exc ellent solvent for pennies the ounce. When I get into that level of use, I put an inch of kitty litter in the bottom of a trash can, and spray away. N othing goes into the ground, there is no sticky mess, and the litter is dry by the next day anyway.

On silver - back in the day when coal was burnt for everything from heat to steel making to transportation to making Carbon Monoxide (town gas) for li ghting, there was a LOT of sulphur in the air. And the servants were ALWAYS polishing the "plate" as it would turn dark very nearly overnight. Things are cleaner now, and it takes several days to nearly never. But silver oxid es do not form at room temperature naturally. Full stop. I keep a pre-amp t hat uses silver contacts and wipers on several of the pots and switches ins ide. They are nearly as bright as when new, not much gets inside the 'box' to cause problems. Funny thing - it was a "cheap" preamp back in the day.

Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA

That's scarcely proof... and a claim that's made on the basis of "zero evidence of this on the net" isn't really to be taken seriously, I think.

Have you not heard of "pasteurization"? It is standard procedure in the U.S. to require that commercially-sold milk products be pasteurized, and has been for roughly a century.

Standard milk pasteurization temperatures kill almost all pathogenic bacteria in the milk, and also kill most of the bacteria which cause milk to sour naturally. These temperatures are *not* high enough to kill all of the bacteria in raw milk... and some relatively slow-growing heat-tolerant bacteria will survive and will cause the milk to go bad after a few days.

It's possible to buy ("ultra-heat-treated") milk, which has been heated briefly to well above boiling temperature for a few seconds. It can be stored at room temperature for months.

The details of this process haven't changed very much in decades. I learned about this in microbiology class, in high school, back in the late 1960s. My teacher made the distinction between "goes sour" and "goes bad" way back then. It's nothing new.

Pasteurization is a more thorough process than your proposed "virus attacks the bacteria" treatment would be. Heat treatment kills or stunts most species of bacteria and archaea in the milk. Viruses would very probably attack only a limited range of the bacteria... even if they killed the "souring" bacteria such as Lactobacillus, they would leave other species untouched (e.g. E. coli) and the milk would still require pasteurization to be sold legally and safely.

Don't believe it then, but I don't make shit up. There WAS evidence of it which has all been removed. How do you think I found out ?

I did NOT imagine this.

which has all been removed. How do you think I found out ?

No, you did not. However, it is quite common knowledge and you have serious ly misplaced the application.

My wife makes yogurt from whole milk and active cultures she saves from the previous batch. She makes it Asian style (thin as light cream) and Euro st yle - thick as pudding. It is a matter of the culture, cure time and base u sed. Were there the "virus" as you suggest in the milk, this simply would n ot happen.

I think you conflated this product with paranoid imaginings, perhaps some m ind-altering substances and a few other imagined conspiracies.

Here is the basic failure point of _ALL_ serious conspiracies from the fake d moon landing to the Masons and Knights Templar ruling the earth. In order for any such thing to be true, uncounted thousands must be "in" on the sec ret. Human nature being what it is, at least a hundred or so of these uncou nted thousands are going to let the secret escape, and with real, credible proof. It may be impossible to prove the negative, but it is laughingly eas y to prove what actually exists.

As to "removing" all the proof from the net - that would be yet another imp ossible conspiracy.

Or, in the immortal words of Stephen Stills:

There's something happening here But what it is ain't exactly clear There's a man with a gun over there Telling me I got to beware

I think it's time we stop Children, what's that sound? Everybody look - what's going down?

There's battle lines being drawn Nobody's right if everybody's wrong Young people speaking' their minds Getting so much resistance from behind

It's time we stop Hey, what's that sound? Everybody look - what's going down?

What a field day for the heat A thousand people in the street Singing songs and carrying signs Mostly saying, "hooray for our side"

It's time we stop Hey, what's that sound? Everybody look - what's going down?

Paranoia strikes deep Into your life it will creep It starts when you're always afraid Step out of line, the men come and take you away

We better stop Hey, what's that sound? Everybody look - what's going down?

We better stop Hey, what's that sound? Everybody look - what's going down?

We better stop Now, what's that sound? Everybody look - what's going down?

We better stop Children, what's that sound? Everybody look - what's going down?

Tarnish is a thin layer of corrosion that forms over copper, brass, silver, aluminum, magnesium and other similar metals as their outermost layer undergoes a chemical reaction. Tarnish does not always result from the sole effects of oxygen in the air. For example, silver needs hydrogen sulfide to tarnish, although it may tarnish with oxygen over time.

I'm not sure how much time is required, but my guess is that it's in months.

Good point. However, I couldn't find anything on the electrical conductivity of oleic acid. If I feel ambitious, I'll try some on a glass slide with my antique hand crank Megger meter. Something like this: Last time I used it, I managed to zap myself, so I'm not thrilled with doing this. Still, it's handy for measuring leakage resistance and torturing customers to pay my exorbitant fees.

Well, at least you have the correct approach. If you don't know, try it and see what it really does. It's much better to test than to speculate. However, my opinions and experiences with WD40 are somewhat different than yours. I'll use it for all kinds of mechanical devices, but I keep it away from electronics for the same reason you seem to dislike oleic acid. Both tend to migrate to where they don't belong.

Drivel: No matter what the topic of the discussion, if it is about chemicals for electronics, the discussion will inevitably gravitate down to WD40.

--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com 
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

...

I think we will call this Jeff's Law.

John ;-#)#

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(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup) 
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                      www.flippers.com 
        "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

Sorry but that name is already taken, at least in Florida: Also, such an association might tarnish my reputation. Think of something else or something better.

--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com 
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

** The Wiki does not actually say that *silver oxide* is formed on bare silver, in air at room temp.

Other Google references say that in rare cases, silver chloride can form but make no mention of silver oxide.

.... Phil

The r100 had a neat smell. Whatever I had left lost most of the smell.

Greg

I never had a problem with WD40 except it pretty much dries off. Never saw it get sticky.

Greg

** The oily residue can cause malfunctions in electronics - but only someone totally clueless would spray it all over the drive belts in a VCR or cassette player OR like one case I saw the tuning gang in a Quad FM3 tuner.

It took an enormous amount of cleaning to get ALL the oil off and restore the RF and oscillator stages to normal operation after the FM stations had moved nearly 20MHz down and right off the dial.

Hint: mineral oil had a dielectric constant of about 2, relative to air.

..... Phil

These days I apply it with a syringe right to the contacts. If the blades are really dusty I use stuff that is completely residue free, and I DO test it.

e,

** By "contacts" you mean the bronze bearings and fingers that ground the moving plates ?

A few drops of WD40 or similar works like magic and restores normal operati on to AM and FM bands.

BTW:

Audio Generators often use a tuning gangs, not just old tube models but als o modern examples with FET input sustaining amplifier circuits. The dual ga ngs used are the same as found in tube AM radios and give the advantages of infinite resolution and indefinite life compared to using a dual pot.

The circuit used is a Wien Bridge and to get down to 20Hz means using 20Moh m resistors in the network ( f = 1/2piRC ). The whole gang has to be isol ated from ground since the two sections are connected in series.

.... Phil

e moving plates ? "

Exactly. If the plates are clean that is all it needs and usually the align ment stays put enough that you only have to hit the trimmer caps a little b it to tweak it.

And realizing that when you clean a pot you are cleaning the contact to the wiper which is in the center, not the carbon element, I have successfully use LPS2 from the front. It gets through and takes care of it.

It is surprising how long it took for these tuning caps to become in need o f cleaning. Back in the 1970s it was unheard of. Even now, alot of people w ho still have analog tuners just leave them on one station so they never mo ve. Pots also, move them around all the time and they clean themselves.

Of course eventually there will be no such things, just buttons. Oh and rot ary encoders. I have a bad problem with those but I am not going to ask you because you are in bumfukt Egypt or whatever. I need to source them here a nd not for twenty bucks apiece. They are not optical either. And I am serio us unsure of how any I will need. I got 53 units and figure by cannibalisat ion probably get 35 or so of them up and saleable. These things, when the r otary encoder starts going the SOB will go down when you turn it up, up whe n you turn it down. That can be annoying and I don't want to see these thin gs coming back with bullet holes in them.