Composite video out of a flat screen?

I think that I know the answer to this one but at the risk of looking like a dummy I'll ask anyway. Some time ago a customer left a flat screen with me for repair. The short end of it is that I fixed it, they never picked it up, so now it's in our bedroom. I can receive the three major networks off my antenna and a few other things I can take or leave and we're satisfied with that. Naturally they appear in HD, (which I can also do without).

The problem is that we tape all our shows on VCR's to watch later when both my wife and I have time. Most sets, and this one is no exception have no provision for a composite, S, or any other type of "video out".

Now I reaIize that I can place a converter ahead of the TV, down convert to NTSC, Use either channel three RF or AV out, lose my HD and accomplish what I'm trying to do, but this is not only an extra added expense but a pain in the ass as well.

Does anyone know if first of all composite video as we've known it for the past 75 or so years even exists in a modern flat screen TV, and if so is it possible to get it "out of the set? I realize that I'd have to employ some type of isolation between the TV and the outside world, and I'm sure that I could come up with a way to do that, but I'm just asking if this could be possible. Thanks, Lenny

Reply to
klem kedidelhopper
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I have never seen a digital TV that has a composite video OUTPUT. It makes no sense - you lose signal quality. Many (but not all) have composite inputs; that signal is digitized and processed just as the OTA signal is. I have seen some that have the capability of recording the OTA (mpeg4 compressed) digital signal to a hard drive, but that's rare. For specific information, look for a service manual for your set at

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and study it.

What you should be hoping for is a customer who asks you to look at a DVR with digital tuner, then neglects to pick it up. It's 2012, time to accept the digital world.

PlainBill

Reply to
PlainBill

There was a generation of HDTV that was a separate box (like a cable box) that went between the RF input and the monitor. Those, frequently had a video/composite output to support VCR and other legacy components.

Samsung SIR-TS160 and SIR-TS360 were two such (and they may be available used).

The problem with using any television, is that it has to be left ON (with the screen backlight illuminated, sound blaring) in support of a timed VCR. The separate-box does this quietly and without fuss, but even if you can find a modern TV with composite outputs, it won't be automatically ON and tuned to your channel at record time unless you prearrange that.

The modern way, of course, is to get something like SiliconDust's dual tuner (HD Homerun?) and let your PC record any and all of the shows you want.

Reply to
whit3rd

The simple answer Lenny, is no. There is no need for composite video to exist anywhere in the signal chain from off-air RF to the panel drive circuitry in any kind of modern flatscreen ...

Arfa

Reply to
Arfa Daily

"klem kedidelhopper mental defective "

** It has hardly ever existed in any TV set.

But a few LCD sets have it:

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Phil

Reply to
Phil Allison

......   Phil

That is an interesting feature on that set Phil. I didn't notice a mention of high impedance line audio out though. It must have it just didn't see it. Problem is though I'm in the US and the set is in Australia. Would probably cost a small fortune to get it here. I never knew that Dick Smith was now into consumer electronics. I bought my Dick Smith ESR meter kit from a US supplier several years ago and I' ve always been very satisfied with it. I used to talk with Bob Parker on this group years ago but I haven't seen him on for some time now. He designed that meter and was always very helpful. We talked personally many times and he was instrumental in my decision to buy the kit. Lenny

Reply to
klem kedidelhopper

? Phil

It might just be a composite pass-through input -like with conference room type video projectors, there's 900 inputs and outputs, but you can't use the thing as a converter between signals.

Reply to
Cydrome Leader

Bob is alive and well Lenny. I still talk to him regularly

Arfa

Reply to
Arfa Daily

Actually you might be able to get a DVI or VGA ouput somewhere and use a li ttle convertor box. I have a couple so I can send the PC's output to an NTS C television. They were about fifty bucks apiece but I'd bet they're cheape r now.

I'm pretty sure it is cheap to convert from DVI to VGA, but I don't know ab out the other way around, which I might (happen to) need.

In any event, a TV is not going to downconvert for you, that what my little boxes are for.

Actually I remember installing an ATI AIW 7500 years ago for a buddy and I found that for some reason the COMB filter wouldn't work right using the co mposite output, we had to turn the notch filter on. Should have used Svid b ut it was a fairly long run.

Later with the EZTV box going into my XBR, the COMB filter worked and the i nterlace was perfect, but what was strange is with the analog COMB filter y ou know how you see the crawling dots on the first line of a large color bl ock ? They didn't crawl.

I am still at a loss as to how the hell they got the timing right enough bu t made it so the dots were stationary. Eother way the quality was as expect ed, 480i.

I have the opposite problem myself, I got a shitload of old beta tapes I wa nt to turn into MPEGs and DVDs. I don't know if my system is good enough to use one of those USB convertors, well at least this one. I have a never sy atem in the basement feeding the BIG stereo and a projo, but that can't tak e as many harddrives as this one. Not sure what to do. I want it ALL on har ddrives, and more than one of them. I might only get one chance to rip them .

From what I gather for your problem though is that HDMI can be converted to DVI, and DVI can be converted to VGA. One of those little boxes will do it from there. The only problem is that you are going to need an analog audio connection because normally HDMI includes it and doesn't require separate cables.

I've heard of cases though, where if the PC was booted with the TV off or s omething it would not have audio, probably something to do with a handshake . The solution in that case because the guy didn't want to be forced into u sing the TV all the time was to just use analog audio. I really don't know what happens with the audio if you use a convertor from HDMI to DVI, maybe the convertor has audio jacks.

Google should find you something on that right quick.

J
Reply to
jurb6006

On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 06:21:25 -0700 (PDT), klem kedidelhopper wrote: (...)

Why bother? Just find one of the cheap (junk) ATSC to NTSC converter boxes that the government was subsidizing. They all have composite video outputs. Put an RF splitter on the antenna connector. One port goes to this box, the other to your TV. Plug the VCR into converter box composite output. Now, you have an instant dual front end, single channel DVR, errr... VCR. If the splitter drops the signal excessively, add an RF broadband TV amplifier.

The only problem is that many of the used converter boxes I'm finding at garage sales and thrift shops, seem to have been rather hastily designed and sloppily built. I really don't know if any manufacturer or brand name ever made a quality product. If you find something, it might help to check the reviews before spending any money. Plenty to choose from on eBay under "digital TV converter box".

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Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
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Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

[about getting composite video to a VCR, from a TV]

And, remember to hunt the menus for the automatic-shutoff feature and disable it; these gizmos often save energy by shutting themselves down if remote control signals aren't sent every once in a while.

Your VCR won't be able to channel-select, in general, nor power-up the converter at record time. Computer-based solutions are better.

Reply to
whit3rd

On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 06:21:25 -0700 (PDT), klem kedidelhopper put finger to keyboard and composed:

It doesn't answer your question but ...

I use a cheap STB (AU$40) with a USB socket and HDMI output. I can record any program in HD to a USB flash drive. The file format is playable on a PC using VLC video player. No need for VCRs anymore. In fact I'm told that you can even burn the recordings in DVD format so that they can be played on a regular DVD player.

- Franc Zabkar

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Reply to
Franc Zabkar

I realize that I can do things like the ones mentioned with convertor boxes. I was just hoping that there was a way to do it without the use of an additional box. but now that doesn't seem like a possibility, and in fact as someone else previously mentioned even if I could accomplish this it would require having the TV on while making the recording. This is not practical at all, especially considering the clock ticking on these flat panels all the while they're on. Lenny

Reply to
klem kedidelhopper

On Fri, 12 Oct 2012 16:37:11 -0700 (PDT), klem kedidelhopper put finger to keyboard and composed:

The STB can record in standalone mode. It has its own tuner. You would just need the TV to set it up.

- Franc Zabkar

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Reply to
Franc Zabkar

" I use a cheap STB (AU$40) with a USB socket and HDMI output. I can

STB = Set Top Box ? (just making sure)

If you're talking one of those USB video convertora we better ask Lenny if he has a computer that doesn't say "ENIAC" on it LOL. IIRC he was in here a while back looking to fix something on a 386 or something for some old sof tware, or something like that.

I'm running a PC that's OK (AMD 3500+@2.23, 2 Ghz FSB, 1.5 GB RAM) and I do n't trust it to run one of those things without dropped frames etc. When th ey say minimum system requirements, remember they STILL want to sell their product. Plenty of times I've bought things that my system just barely qual ified for and it ran like shit. The manufacturer's support (if any) usually would say that I need a better PC.

Anyway even if I did decide to use the PC as a recorder, I would need a DVI output to watch the recordings on TV anyway, and that's a feature that's s till not quite universal on new motherboards. Many do have it now, but go b ack just a few years and they were not so common. That would mean another v idcard.

Then, capturing from a convertor box in 480i gives you 480i quality. Of cou rse a VCR makes that even worse. Maybe a standalone DVDR would be better, s ome of them might up and downconvert. More expensive ones - of course.

Anyway, if two event timer record is desired, you would need either to be a ble to select video inputs in the timer menu or else it has to have a tuner . With a tuner concievably you could use two convertors and have one set to channel three and the other to four. Just leave them both on.

Why don't standalone DVDRs have something like a cable mouse, like on old S ony 920 ? (maybe some do ?)

J
Reply to
jurb6006

f he has a computer that doesn't say "ENIAC" on it LOL. IIRC he was in here a while back looking to fix something on a 386 or something for some old s oftware, or something like that.

don't trust it to run one of those things without dropped frames etc. When they say minimum system requirements, remember they STILL want to sell thei r product. Plenty of times I've bought things that my system just barely qu alified for and it ran like shit. The manufacturer's support (if any) usual ly would say that I need a better PC.

VI output to watch the recordings on TV anyway, and that's a feature that's still not quite universal on new motherboards. Many do have it now, but go back just a few years and they were not so common. That would mean another vidcard.

ourse a VCR makes that even worse. Maybe a standalone DVDR would be better, some of them might up and downconvert. More expensive ones - of course.

able to select video inputs in the timer menu or else it has to have a tun er. With a tuner concievably you could use two convertors and have one set to channel three and the other to four. Just leave them both on.

Sony 920 ? (maybe some do ?)

since then. These days I run a P233 with 98 and 6.2 in that position. BTW what was Eniac? I remember Univac. I remember seeing the plug in modules wi th the dual triodes in the surplus shops on Radio Row in NYC when I was a k id. Don't worry though service shouldn't be a problem. I've got loads of 12 AU7's around here. Yes admittedly I am a dinosaur...Lenny

Reply to
klem kedidelhopper

On Sat, 13 Oct 2012 06:57:51 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com put finger to keyboard and composed:

Yes.

No.

Here is what I'm talking about:

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It's virtually a drop-in replacement for your VCR except that, instead of a VHS cassette, it records to a USB stick. You can then play it back through the TV, or you can take the flash drive to a PC and transfer the file(s) to your HDD.

In fact I've just played back a recording of a recent EUFA cup soccer match on an 800MHz AMD Duron running Win98SE using VLC video player.

formatting link

You'll need a USB 2.0 port, though, as USB 1.1 is quite slow. At least I think it's the port that is the bottleneck (I don't have room on my HDD to download the file).

AISI, why would you bother with an analogue recording if you can do it digitally for $40, and then make perfect copies every time, as well as transferring them to a playable optical disc?

BTW, my Internet machine is an old AMD 450MHz socket 7 box running Win98SE. My brother reckons it's made of wood. :-)

- Franc Zabkar

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Reply to
Franc Zabkar

On Mon, 15 Oct 2012 09:13:32 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com put finger to keyboard and composed:

main fetish when it comes to this was not to have DVDs, but to have PC files. The box itself does it, and if I want to put something up on youtube I just stick the stick in the PC apparently. Once I get one and get busy I will probably be THE preeminent star of youtube. The reason ? I GOT BETA ! LOL

The Soniq STB is designed for the Australian market. I looked around for something to suit the North American market, but I couldn't find anything other than a TV card for a PC. Maybe you guys call them by some other name.

Here is a similar thread at aus.electronics:

formatting link

- Franc Zabkar

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Reply to
Franc Zabkar

Lenny I started recording HDTV in a PC 8 years ago. It was a very modest AM D Sempron on a cheap ECS mobo. Try it and you'll never go back to a VCR. He ck man, you repair that junk so you know just how crappy a VCR really is. T he PC I'm on right now is recording as I type. It can also play out multipl e HD streams while in record and never drops a frame. I have 2 more nearly identical machines that get used as plain jane PCs but are often in record. No heads to wear out, no dropouts no record time limits. It's way easier t o implement than you think.

Reply to
stratus46

On Mon, 15 Oct 2012 19:19:56 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com put finger to keyboard and composed:

I understand your frustration.

Is it possible that a more enlightened country that uses the same DTV standard allows these things to be imported? If so, would it be possible to obtain one that way?

- Franc Zabkar

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Reply to
Franc Zabkar

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