Clogged laptop heat pipe and fan

HP Envy m6 laptop (with AMD A10 processor), which arrive with a bad case of overheating. Here's what the radiator grill looked like after I tore apart the laptop to clean out the filth:

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That's about 50% clogged. It took about 45 mins to overheat and shut down in self defense. The owner didn't really notice that there was an overheating problem, but did notice that the machine seemed to run slower when hot. I certainly noticed when I tried to do an image backup for 100 GBytes of kids games and found that it overheated and shut down in the middle of the backup (3 times). Note that the picture was AFTER I had hit the fan with my 60 psi air hose from every conceivable angle to try and clear out the crud. No luck.

Here's what I had to do to the laptop to clean it out:

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General lack of easy maintenance features is one reason I don't like HP products.

The real problem is the mechanical design. The grill on the heat pipe is made for maximum cooling, not minimum filth accumulation. I did an experiment once with some dog hair clippings (don't ask) to see what really happens when a laptop sucks in short hair cuttings. The long hairs are blocked by the small holes in the grill work. The dust goes right through and out the exhaust port. However, tiny hair fragments between about 4 to 6 mm go through the holes, through fan, and get jammed up against the radiator grill. Initially, most of these short hairs went right through, but as the few that got stuck increased, more and more began to get caught until air flow was constricted to about 30% of maximum. It happened quite fast and was impressive to watch through a clear plastic fake cover. (I should do a YouTube video). After the test, I found that I could easily blow out most of the hair because there was no grease or goo to hold the fur ball in place. The laptop in the photo was possibly used near something that produced greasy fumes (kitchen or oil burning furnace). It took about

3 years to look like the photo. I forgot to take a photo of the fan. It was fairly clean except for greasy dirt stuck to the blades. I could hear the fan struggling, but it was against the back pressure, not friction from the filth. Again, the picture was AFTER I had blown out the laptop with 60 PSI compressed air from my blow gun in both directions.
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Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
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Jeff Liebermann
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"They all do that"

Reply to
avagadro7

On 7 Aug 2015, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote (in article):

Actually, they all *do* (in time)?

Reply to
DaveC

ha, nice test.

I recall an old stale cigar being used to test airflow though audio amps at one shop.

Reply to
Cydrome Leader

Related to that, notebooks and laptops, ie often used on laps. I'm surprised how few outlet grills have a bulge around them to stop loose clothing blocking the air outlet. Cut bit/s of blue hotmelt glue stick and glue the disc/crescent to the periphery simply sorts that one

Reply to
N_Cook

I used to share my office with a cigarette smoker. Checking air flow was easy with him around. However, he died and I have to now search for someone who still smokes (cancer candidates).

Incidentally, one of my favorite tricks to checking air flow is to remove the cover from (for example) a mini-tower case, and replace it with a layer of cellophane wrap. You can easily see the smoke moving around the case. For my paying customers, I vacuum formed a replacement cover out of clear acrylic, or viewed the insides with an endoscope. If I had a spare cover, I would install an acrylic window.

Yeah, that should work if you can stand the smell. One of my friends gave me a "plumbers rocket". They come in all shapes and sizes, but this one was a rather large one. Far too much smoke. So, I built a smoker (used to smoke cheese, meat, etc) from a small aquarium pump, a stainless can combustion chamber, and some copper plumbing. It doesn't produce much smoke, but that's what I want.

Hint: Don't use a fog machine. The water or glycerine mist is too heavy and sinks much faster than wood or paper ash. They also produce far too much fog and the glycerine is hard to remove from the PCB without washing the board.

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Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
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Jeff Liebermann

Yeah, that can be a problem. I've done it to myself with the carpet matt that I have on my workbench. When I place the laptop on it, it sinks into the fibers and totally blocks the air flow. I now use a rubber door matt, that has a raised labyrinth design to prevent blocking.

However, the real problem is the newer low profile laptops don't have any air space under the laptop when placed on a flat surface. The closer proximity to the table means that it sucks in all the dust, dirt, crap, food crumbs, whatever that is on the table. Kinda like a vacuum cleaner. Try it. Put some dust on the table and move the laptop around near it. Unless the dust is sticky, it will get sucked into the fan.

The manufacturers solution is to replace or augment the slots in the bottom of the laptop with a grill full of small holes, such as in the photo: The added grill is obviously a quick fix that was not in the original design, which only had slots. The result is that the air intake area, is much smaller than the exhaust area, thus constricting the air flow. A centrifugal fan is a really bad choice for a system with a restricted intake (and a clogged exhaust). That might also explain why the fan didn't move much air, even at "high" speeds.

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Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
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Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

On 8 Aug 2015, Jeff Liebermann wrote

Jeff, what do you use for fuel in your smoker?

Dave

Reply to
DaveC

Box cardboard, paper egg crates, wood chips, charcoal dust, pellet stove fuel, dried lawn clippings, or anything that will burn inefficiently and smoulder. Adding a sprinkle of water produced more smoke, but the flames went out too quickly. Read about what goes into a bee keepers smoker for clues:

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Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
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Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

AE6KS ..... how about live oak ?

or in your area...dead oak.

Reply to
avagadro7

How about using incense?

Reply to
JW

I haven't tried incense but I suspect it will not produce enough visible smoke.

Also, since the machine under test is usually borrowed, methinks the owner might not appreciate having his machine internally coated with a layer of smelly oil. I had that problem when I used some of the pine kindling I save for starting my wood burning stove. The sap (creosote) was carried along with the smoke and made the case reek like a pine tree. Fortunately, most of it condensed near the air intake, so all I had to do was solvent wash the grill work and Dell's one big case fan. What you want is a finely divided ash, not a smelly or oily glue.

Sigh. I guess they don't teach combustion, bomb making, and arson in the skools any more. We had "burn baby burn" while I was in college, but I guess later generations were too busy burning incense, getting stoned, and fighting smog to bother learning about rapid oxidation. Very sad and depressing commentary on the deteriorating quality of education methinks.

Hints: Don't get the mix too hot, humidity has a big effect, figure out which way the wind is blowing first, and don't inhale the smoke. Too much oxidizer will cause the steel case to rust or the mix to act like flash powder. Try not to Learn by Destroying your computah.

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Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
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Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

H-P designed computers for office conditions. Blaming H-P form our slovenliness is un-called for ...

Walmart sells round white grippy pads with AAA adhesive once the grease goes off your laptop with methyl chloride raising vents just so for better cooling and no slip on slide surfaces...

I lost the 1705E from G's out of the Turbo.

Reply to
avagadro7

I know. My office has a condition.

The first step to solving a problem is to blame someone. If I can't blame HP, would you consider being the designated culprit?

I use a door matt with lumps and bumps to improve the air flow under the laptop. Everything I've tried to stick to the bottom of my laptop usually falls off when the car gets too hot and the glue softens.

The grease remover is usually just alcohol, not methylene chloride or dichloromethane (furniture stripper).

That would be a Dell Inspiron e1705. Slow CPU

Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

He might also think you're smoking pot. lol

This all makes me appreciate my crapola Gateway. It's a P series and I boug ht them in large part because of the bogger screen. I can almost see it YIP PEE ! It has alot going for it really, it has two HD bays which I never see n in a laptop before or since, the RAM is easy to get to, the batteries see m pretty good considering now they are over five years old. But the OS is V ista Hoe Premium and I cosinder that it runs like shit even though it is pr etty clean. I mean I don't load alot on it lke some people. The AV is AVG. And the sound sucks. I don't mean the speakers, I mean even the audio outpu t is highly upcompressed, like radio. In fact so compressed - AM radio. Has decent frequency response but I have to turn the input level amost all the way down on VLC to get rid of (most of) the compression. Actually I like i t for movies that way, but music ? I might have to get an external DAC. (do n't start that audiophool shit now)

I dunno what to do, I don't want 7, 8 or 10 and I'll never find drivers fro XP, the running of which has its own set of problems. Not quite ready to j ump to Linux but im not completely in the dark on it.

Anyway, all this kinda makes me wonder how they manage the heat in those ta blets. The Microsoft one is supposed to be a veritable PC. With the USB you could concievably plug in a mouse and (real) keyboard and do just about an ything. Even print. One thing I haven't seen them tout is a video output. I am pretty sure it would have to be HDMI because of the thickness. (or woul d that be thinness ? Like what is the speed of dark ?)

Would an external touchscreen monitor work on one ? Ifit had HDMI and USB, probably I would think.

Reply to
jurb6006

I'm keeping that one !

Reply to
jurb6006

AE6KS ....

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wonderful...If I can have you fix it ? today the charger overheated a battery.

The charger system is dying. You know the story abt the lightning strike when my social research attempted finding a ide photo of Debbie Boone is Images ?

I typed. YOUR SLOVENLINESS but Goonazi's changed YOUR to OUR

A Dell 1620 ? replaced Big Silver...a 1620 screen is max better in daylight that a 2006 1705E.

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the laptops sit on a plywood desk running from below radioatop doghouse to metal cargo divider. AAA GPS in S&T and Garmin Nroute. I herd yawl has a chance to run the San Andreas route into SF. Outstanding N-S trip. Remarkable for the zero traffic on weekdays on shoulder seasons. EG only vehicle on the Roosevelt Slalom down to the Transverse Intersection.

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SUPER ! There are several dumpstered pdf life jackets in stock with ethafoam closed cell...small slices of ethafoam glued to edges of electronics damps shock even for a Otter Boxed Samsung5. Not marketable as foam chunks 'spoil the lines'

Reply to
avagadro7

sliders here called GRIPPES , replaceable off course, are Waxman 4738511W 1" 16 count

Reply to
avagadro7

nude and GRIPPERS dammit

Reply to
avagadro7

The cooling system is not always designed as badly as the HP. Here's a Dell Inspiron 1525 cooling system: Note that the weird shaped bottom hatch give me access to the fan after I remove the heat pipe. I would have liked to also have access to the fan intake, but it was easy enough to clean with a brush and pipe cleaner.

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Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
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Jeff Liebermann

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