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Re: Advice requested from those of you who have successfully checked camber at home
On Thu, 8 Dec 2016 20:37:59 -0000 (UTC), John Harmon wrote:

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You need a cataly$t, and a good front end man. Bring your vehicle to the
front end man, lubricate him with your cataly$t ($100 should do nicely),
and he'll perform the conversion for you, even adjusting things to the
result you would desire (key word or phrase: "wheel alignment").

HTH. Cheers, -- tlvp
--  
Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP.

Re: Advice requested from those of you who have successfully checked camber at home
tlvp actually said:

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Anyone can catalyze a reaction, but the catalyst remains unchanged.

That is, if I do that, I learn absolutely nothing.

I remain as uneducated as before.

Re: Advice requested from those of you who have successfully checked camber at home
On Fri, 9 Dec 2016 15:14:35 -0000 (UTC), John Harmon

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  You can educate youself on what an alignment consists of, and
understand what is involved, without doing it yourself. I think your
problem is you have a fear of mechanics - an ingrained mistrust -
combined with a very tight grip on your money (although how that goes
along with driving a wiener wagon, I cannot for the life of me figure
out)

Re: Advice requested from those of you who have successfully checked camber at home
snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca actually said:

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I appreciate your advice.
Here are the diagrams I made for toe based on your pragmatic advice.

1. This shows why toe is specified as an angle to the centerline:
  
http://i.cubeupload.com/rtvi9L.gif

2. This shows why an *angle* is better than a distance specification:
  
http://i.cubeupload.com/BzNqBY.gif

3. This shows that Total Toe is a distance while toe is an angle:
  
http://i.cubeupload.com/kYxrgm.gif

If that is correct, the only problem I have understanding in the spec is
why the total toe is specified in angles when it should be the difference
in the distance between the front and rear tracks to the centerline:
http://i.cubeupload.com/RubZhV.gif
http://i.cubeupload.com/cfaDWp.jpg

Re: Advice requested from those of you who have successfully checked camber at home
snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca posted for all of us...


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+1 and gaining BMW=$$$

--  
Tekkie

Re: Advice requested from those of you who have successfully checked camber at home
On 12/8/2016 11:23 AM, John Harmon wrote:
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I assume that is the wheel and not a hub cap.
I'm guessing your looking for something between 0.5* and 2*, but I want  
to know.
  Someone said you need accuracy within .01 degrees, that's 1% of 1  
degree. Good luck getting the 18 year old at the tire shop to do that.
I'd be happy with 10%, being that it is an adjustable characteristic  
that can depend on how you want to drive the car, comfort or cornering.
  I don't have a clue about phone app accuracy, but you can check it.
But hey, I've never done it, so don't read my response.


                                 Mikek

Re: Advice requested from those of you who have successfully checked camber at home
amdx actually said:

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The car I will test this out first on is a bimmer with alloy wheels and lug
bolts so both those traits make the task of bolting on a jig easier than if
it were a steel wheel with lug nuts.

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I later found this BMW spec which shows that I need accuracy in 1 or 2
minutes (
http://i.cubeupload.com/cfaDWp.jpg) but how do I convert that 1
and 2 minutes to inches?

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I think he meant inches though.  

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I understand that the alignment shop guy might not care all that much to
get as accurate as he can.  

Right now, I think the accuracy needs to be plus or minus one minute for
toe and 2 minutes for camber.  

I just don't know how to convert minutes to inches.  

Re: Advice requested from those of you who have successfully checked camber at home

"John Harmon"
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You can't. Minutes of angle are a function of a  
triangle.
Inches are simply a scalar measurement of distance.  


Re: Advice requested from those of you who have successfully checked camber at home
Phil Kangas actually said:

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That's bad news because both the toe and camber are specified in degrees
but when I measure toe, it will be in inches.

At least when I measure the camber it will be in degrees so I won't be
switching units back and forth.

I know how to physically measure toe in inches (e.g., with a string); but I
don't (yet) know how to measure toe in degrees with a smart phone or
digital level.  

Re: Advice requested from those of you who have successfully checked camber at home
On Thu, 8 Dec 2016 21:13:31 -0000 (UTC), John Harmon

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  If you are going to measure the toe with a string, you may as well
forget about it. You can NOT get enough accuracy or repeatability to
determine if the toe is correct or not. Without pro equipment, to get
that granular in your measurement you NEED to extend your measurements
5 or 10 feet and measure with a goor steel tape measure, or extend the
displaced centerline accurately and measure with a steel rule. Using
the simple tape measure will give you the total toe - which will be
double the specified toe per wheel, and will not tell you if you are
off-center.

Re: Advice requested from those of you who have successfully checked camber at home
snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca actually said:

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This is good advice that a string won't be accurate nor repeatable enough
for toe measurements.  

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This home-alignment howto shows camber in degrees and toe in both degrees
and in inches:
http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/suspension/alignment.html

The really good news is that the author suggests 0 degrees of camber,
which, it seems to me on initial thought, should be the easiest of all
angles to measure.

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That same article shows how to get the individual wheel toe:
http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/suspension/alignpics/align3.jpg

Since this thread is all about practical advice, the great news is that the
article offered the following pragmatic recommendation of:
a. Zero degrees of camber for a street car
b. Zero toe  
(or a smidge of toe of about 1/16" on each side for a total toe of 1/32")  

Both those zeroes should be relatively easy to measure with shop tools, are
they not?

Re: Advice requested from those of you who have successfully checked camber at home
On 12/8/2016 2:17 PM, John Harmon wrote:
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   Something wrong, 30 minutes is equal to 0.5 degrees.
1 minute is 0.0167 degrees, I don't think that's what you are after.

  You might play with a trig calculator.
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  I put in a 1 degree angle for (angle a) and 16" for
(side B) Then hit calculate to find (side a).
  This says you need 0.279" of tilt top to bottom
on a 16" wheel.
  Note: this triangle is rotated 90* to your wheel.
So take that into account when thinking about the calculation.
Bottom line, for a 1 degree angle you need a tilt of 0.279" over 16".
  That's measurable, but you need a post 90* off the floor.

                                     Mikek



Re: Advice requested from those of you who have successfully checked camber at home
On Thu, 8 Dec 2016 20:17:43 -0000 (UTC), John Harmon

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  There is a saying about Bimmers.
If you have to ask how much - for anything - you can't afford to drive
a bimmer.. There are enough things that can go wrong in the front end
of one of those  kraut-wagons that  I think you are definitely being
penny wise and pound foolish trying to save $100 on the maintenance of
a late model Bimmer. Don't be such a cheap-ass. - or drive a Chevy.

You want to know if anything is worn or bent - and measuring CASTER is
required as well to know.  You really don't have your head around the
concepts well enough to understand WHY an alignment check should be
done properly. Your "quick check" is just that - and if you are at all
in tune with your car as a driver you will know there is something
wrong just as well by simply driving the car. If you are not "in tune
with the car" the Bimmer is wasted on you --- (as it is on the vast
majority of Bimmer owners)

Re: Advice requested from those of you who have successfully checked camber at home
snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca actually said:

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I have multiple vehicles.

My japanese vehicle never breaks.
My bimmer always breaks.

I work on both of them just the same.

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My vehicle has never been in an accident but that's not really the point
because nobody will disagree with you that caster is part of an alignment
equation, and, that caster comes before camber which comes before toe.

This article shows that if you can measure camber, you can measure caster:
http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/suspension/alignment.html

Since my bimmer has no direct way to adjust caster, I'm skipping the
non-adjustable caster (for now) to concentrate on camber.  

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I think that's an unfair statement that I don't understand why an alignment
measurement needs to be correct but certainly I am confused about how to
convert a toe specification that is given in degrees to a toe measurement
which will be made in inches.

What matters to an alignment check is simply that the manufacturer's stated
accuracy is achieved.

That accuracy, for my bimmer, is stated here:
http://i.cubeupload.com/cfaDWp.jpg

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The bimmer insult isn't really needed here since this is a technical
question, but it's fair to say that what you're saying is that "alignment
can be felt" but I would clarify that by adding "sometimes".

I'm not sure if you can feel the difference, for example, between 2 degrees
of negative camber in the rear wheels and 1 degree.

Over time, your tires will tell you; but waiting the 5K miles for the tires
to inform you of that difference is not a quick check by any means.  :)

Re: Advice requested from those of you who have successfully checked camber at home

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buy another


sell it or give it away

Re: Advice requested from those of you who have successfully checked camber at home
nospam actually said:

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My japanese vehicle is sort of like Android; it just works.
The bimmer is more like my iPad; it constantly can't do basic stuff.

:)

Re: Advice requested from those of you who have successfully checked camber at home

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only because you're too stupid to figure out how, particularly after
people repeatedly explain to you exactly how.

Re: Advice requested from those of you who have successfully checked camber at home
Am 09.12.16 um 20:46 schrieb nospam:
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*FACK*

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Re: Advice requested from those of you who have successfully checked camber at home
nospam actually said:

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nospam,

Why do you constantly pollute this thread with your worthless drivel?
You don't know the answer to *any* question asked in this thread.
Not one.

Yet, nospam, you pollute the thread nonetheless.

Re: Advice requested from those of you who have successfully checked camber at home
Am 09.12.16 um 20:11 schrieb John Harmon:
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The problem is obviously not the hardware; it is the user.
*SCNR*

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