1/3AA Lithium battery

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Hi,

I am having difficulty finding a 1/3AA Lithium battery.

It is for this application, any substitute has to fit in pretty much the  
same space as 1/3AA, there is no spare room.
http://wolzow.mindworks.ee/analog/jx-10-m-16c.htm


I did find rechargeable NiMH types, but I don't think they will keep their  
charge for the years expected of a memory backup battery?


Perhaps I could utilise watch type button cells, if I could find a holder  
for them.


Cheers,


Gareth.



Re: 1/3AA Lithium battery
On Friday, March 10, 2017 at 1:13:57 PM UTC-5, Gareth Magennis wrote:
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This one?

http://www.batteryspace.com/nimh-rechargeable-cell-1-3-aa-1-2v-280mah-nimh-rechargeable-batteries.aspx

This one?  

https://www.amazon.com/300-Mah-Nimh-Battery-Tabs/dp/B00JA0BIPW  

Or a bunch here?

https://www.batterygiant.com/Primary-Cells/showcell.asp?cell=1/3%20AA

Prices may vary.  


Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA  

Re: 1/3AA Lithium battery
On Friday, March 10, 2017 at 1:46:33 PM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:
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I know they are not LiPo batteries, but if they are to be rechargeable, that should not matter. I am hunting another source for an actual LiPo device.

Re: 1/3AA Lithium battery


wrote in message  

On Friday, March 10, 2017 at 1:46:33 PM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:
Quoted text here. Click to load it

I know they are not LiPo batteries, but if they are to be rechargeable, that  
should not matter. I am hunting another source for an actual LiPo device.




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Sorry, I'm replying to your posts in the wrong order!

So, how long would you think a 1/3AA NiMH would remain able to backup a  
memory chip?
I suspect current draw is negligible,  it is more down to shelf life  
charged.


Cheers,


Gareth.  


Re: 1/3AA Lithium battery
On Friday, March 10, 2017 at 2:53:37 PM UTC-5, Gareth Magennis wrote:
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Lithium Iron-suphide (Li-FeS2) has a 10-year service life in applications such as you describe.  

Lithium Iron batteries (if you can even find them) go to 20 years, and are highly resistant to extreme ambient conditions.  

I have not seen either of this in the configuration you need, nor have I really done any searching. But I have seen LiPo button cells - so that may be the most expedient approach.  

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA  

Re: 1/3AA Lithium battery


wrote in message  

On Friday, March 10, 2017 at 1:13:57 PM UTC-5, Gareth Magennis wrote:
Quoted text here. Click to load it

This one?

http://www.batteryspace.com/nimh-rechargeable-cell-1-3-aa-1-2v-280mah-nimh-rechargeable-batteries.aspx

This one?

https://www.amazon.com/300-Mah-Nimh-Battery-Tabs/dp/B00JA0BIPW

Or a bunch here?

https://www.batterygiant.com/Primary-Cells/showcell.asp?cell=1/3%20AA

Prices may vary.


Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA



*****************************************************************


Hi Peter,

all those are rechargeable NiMH cells.

I need a battery that will keep it's charge over many years without  
recharging.
This is a memory backup application, where charging of the backup battery is  
not possible.



Cheers,


Gareth.





Re: 1/3AA Lithium battery

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 is  
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OK. Is this the standard 3.7V of the typical LiPo style battery or somethin
g else? If it is that standard, how high can you go and how low can you go?
 I am thinking that you will need to cobble something with button cells to  
the correct voltage and use conventional watch cells. You could use LiPo wa
tch cells and stack them - but in parallel, not series using little ladder  
devices (I could send you a sketch, having done it) and then shrink-wrap th
e results to make it one piece. LiPos self-discharge at about 2%/year, or a
t least the very good ones do, so several in parallel should do nicely for  
as much as 15 years before becoming 30% down (other than from actual use).
  

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA  

Re: 1/3AA Lithium battery


wrote in message  


Quoted text here. Click to load it

OK. Is this the standard 3.7V of the typical LiPo style battery or something  
else? If it is that standard, how high can you go and how low can you go? I  
am thinking that you will need to cobble something with button cells to the  
correct voltage and use conventional watch cells. You could use LiPo watch  
cells and stack them - but in parallel, not series using little ladder  
devices (I could send you a sketch, having done it) and then shrink-wrap the  
results to make it one piece. LiPos self-discharge at about 2%/year, or at  
least the very good ones do, so several in parallel should do nicely for as  
much as 15 years before becoming 30% down (other than from actual use).

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA



**************************************************************


Datasheet says 2v minimum, it is a 5 volt device.
Anywhere in between should be good.

http://www.datasheetcatalog.com/datasheets_pdf/H/M/6/2/HM6264LP-70.shtml



I'm willing to try the watch cell thing, but am a little nervous about  
soldering directly to a Lithium battery.

I'm also thinking that in this particular application, you wouldn't  
necessarily expect another 15 years out of it.
A good few years would probably cope with expectation here, we are talking  
Vintage Synths.



Cheers,


Gareth.  


Re: 1/3AA Lithium battery

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g  
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Y'all don't need to solder. you will get two small pieces of brass or coppe
r flat-stock, and some thin PTFE (Teflon) sheeting. Stack the batteries to  
the correct height for the use. Between each goes a small piece of Teflon a
s an insulator.  Cut the flat-stock so little legs come out at battery-heig
ht for each battery. One goes *UP* for the one pole, the other goes *DOWN*  
for the other. Shrink-wrap the entire shebang. That makes positive contact  
for as many cells as needed in parallel, not series. Lace your fingers, put
 a piece of paper between each, the left hand fingers are on the bottom of  
the piece, the right hand fingers on the top as illustration. If you are a  
fanatic, you will use a drop of electronics-grade (no acetic acid) silicon  
to seal the top and bottom but for where the copper strip comes out for con
necting to the board.  

Been there, done that. The application was a bias cell for a vintage 1930s  
Coronado radio.

http://antiqueradios.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_it
emId29%062&g2_serialNumber=2    

That was 15 years ago, still going strong. I needed only 1.5V, but I wanted
 a bit more longevity than a single watch cell would provide.  

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

Re: 1/3AA Lithium battery


wrote in message  


Quoted text here. Click to load it

Y'all don't need to solder. you will get two small pieces of brass or copper  
flat-stock, and some thin PTFE (Teflon) sheeting. Stack the batteries to the  
correct height for the use. Between each goes a small piece of Teflon as an  
insulator.  Cut the flat-stock so little legs come out at battery-height for  
each battery. One goes *UP* for the one pole, the other goes *DOWN* for the  
other. Shrink-wrap the entire shebang. That makes positive contact for as  
many cells as needed in parallel, not series. Lace your fingers, put a piece  
of paper between each, the left hand fingers are on the bottom of the piece,  
the right hand fingers on the top as illustration. If you are a fanatic, you  
will use a drop of electronics-grade (no acetic acid) silicon to seal the  
top and bottom but for where the copper strip comes out for connecting to  
the board.

Been there, done that. The application was a bias cell for a vintage 1930s  
Coronado radio.

http://antiqueradios.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId29%062&g2_serialNumber=2

That was 15 years ago, still going strong. I needed only 1.5V, but I wanted  
a bit more longevity than a single watch cell would provide.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA



*****************************************************************************************************

I haven't the room to do that.

I don't want to rely on physical contacts unless I have to, I would rather  
solder.
That way I can guarantee a jolt would not erase the memory contents.



Cheers,

Gareth.  


Re: 1/3AA Lithium battery
On Fri, 10 Mar 2017 18:13:53 -0000, "Gareth Magennis"

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They are called CR1/3N or CR11108. Search for that, and you'll find.
If you can find them with solder tabs, however, is another matter.

Quoted text here. Click to load it

It looks to me like this battery is used only for keeping the SRAM
data alive. If so, the current draw will be very low. If you can find
a smaller 3V cell, that will still work for a long time.

You could also stack two LR44 cells. The size should be about right.

Quoted text here. Click to load it

Rechargeables are not the right tool for this job.

Quoted text here. Click to load it

That is a good idea. If you can find a combination of holder and
battery that will fit, that would be a good solution. You could look
for both dual 1.5V or single 3V solution.

Looking at the device, it does not look complicated at all. Are the
high prices because of the collectible value, or would people be
willing to pay similar money for a new, compatible device?
--  
RoRo

Re: 1/3AA Lithium battery


"Robert Roland"  wrote in message  

On Fri, 10 Mar 2017 18:13:53 -0000, "Gareth Magennis"

Quoted text here. Click to load it

They are called CR1/3N or CR11108. Search for that, and you'll find.
If you can find them with solder tabs, however, is another matter.

Quoted text here. Click to load it

It looks to me like this battery is used only for keeping the SRAM
data alive. If so, the current draw will be very low. If you can find
a smaller 3V cell, that will still work for a long time.

You could also stack two LR44 cells. The size should be about right.

Quoted text here. Click to load it

Rechargeables are not the right tool for this job.

Quoted text here. Click to load it

That is a good idea. If you can find a combination of holder and
battery that will fit, that would be a good solution. You could look
for both dual 1.5V or single 3V solution.

Looking at the device, it does not look complicated at all. Are the
high prices because of the collectible value, or would people be
willing to pay similar money for a new, compatible device?
--  
RoRo




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