where to buy cheap, low power, small, diskless systems for thin clients and network appliances?

(long post warning: only read if you are a vendor that sells low power, small footprint, mini PC or thin client systems or are like me and are searching for good places to buy them at decent prices)

I am looking for sources to buy low-power (as in watts consumed) small-footprint systems based on processors like the Geode GX1, Via C3, SiS55x LV, Transmeta Crusoe, and STPC. I would like to find a single vendor or at least a small number of vendors that I can either 1) buy whole systems from, or 2) buy the parts to assemble my own systems, preferably #1. My goal is to standardize on a single system or small set of systems that can be very flexible in their applications and used for various thin client and other low-power network applications. Vendors, please feel free to reply to the post or email me, but only if you can meet all of the requirements outlined below.

All systems should use less than 20 watts of power and be under $250 per unit (purchased one unit at a time,) including shipping and everything the system needs to work other than a monitor, keyboard and mouse -- no hidden costs. If they are cheap enough then they can consume a bit more power, maybe as much as 25W, but they ought to be fanless (if possible) and very quiet. Quantity discounts would be nice but I won't be buying more than

10-20 at a time. They should be small -- no more than about 1/3 cubic foot (9 liters) and hopefully much smaller. Need to have connections for at least: keyboard, mouse (except system 3), ethernet (10/100bT), VGA monitor, and at least one printer, serial, or USB port. They should all be capable of booting via PXE or have a bootable flash drive with at least 32MB that emulates an IDE hard drive, or both, and in all ways emulate the PC architecture so that x86 Linux distributions and other x86 OSes will run with little or no modification (except system #3.)

Price is a big factor in deciding which systems and/or parts I go with, and no system over $250 will be considered. But, so long as the system is under that price point, then factors such as small size, low power consumption, low noise, extra features (more RAM, more connectors, external audio connectors, etc.) will matter as much as price.

Requirements for 3 different systems I'm looking for:

System 1: under $250

128MB RAM 32MB Flash drive (bootable, emulates IDE hard drive) 10/100 Ethernet port (PXE bootable) VGA port with accelerated 2D/3D engine Audio output PS/2 or USB Keyboard and Mouse ports at least 1 each of USB, RS232 serial, and parallel or extra USB fanless or very low power fan and some extra features to make up for it

System 2: same as system #1, but under $200 and with no flash drive and no need to be fanless.

System 3: is a color text ethernet terminal supporting at least one printer that it makes available to a unix host via lpd protocol. under $150 (hopefully much less, at least in large quantities) supports color text and at least 25x80/132 and 43x80/132 resolutions VGA port that supports color CRT and LCD monitors emulates at least vt100/102, ANSI, and PC TERM supports telnet/ssh via 10bT ethernet port at least one parallel, serial, or USB port for a printer and LPD (RFC 1179) support

Complete system solutions I have found so far, for those that are looking for the same:

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Seems to support all requirements for either #1 or #2, depending on configuration, but I don't know about power requirements or size.

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Again, seems to support all requirements for either #1 or #2, depending on config. I haven't verified pricing yet, but website suggests system configured for #2 would be $195.

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looks really slick (very small and low power,) but is priced at least $30 more than their other product above (so might not meet my price requirements,) doesn't have external RS232 and parallel, and may have less computational power (as little as half, but that might not matter.)

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their SB150 looks like it might meet all the requirements for system #2, but I can't tell for sure, and haven't had a response to my emails.

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The NTAVO 6010A looks like it might meet all requirements for system #3 and only lacks RAM to meet reqs for #2, but it looks like it might be a proprietary solution that only works with their server hardware and not with open standards. Anyone know?

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has iBox slim and deck mini-PCs. I think an iBox Slim PC could meet the requirements for system #1 (at $209 plus shipping,) coupled with an IDE flash drive (around $30-$40, I think) or bootable USB drive ($20 or so, but the bios might not support booting from USB even if the pen drive does.) It might run a tiny bit over the $250 limit, I don't know how much power it consumes, and it has fans. The iBox Deck PC has no fans but is $10 more.

Build my own:

I've searched around and found a couple places where I could buy VIA EPIA/Eden motherboards and mini-itx cases at decent prices. It's just amazing how many places there are that have outrageous pricing -- like more than double the lowest dealers. The best price I've found so far is at

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I can put a mini-itx system together with case, motherboard, and 128MB RAM for $186 (including UPS ground shipping) that looks like it will meet system #2 requirements, and I could use a USB or IDE flash drive to make into a system #1. But, looks like I'd have to assemble this myself as I don't see an option for them to assemble and test. If anyone knows other places to buy VIA EPIA motherboards, cases, etc, at prices less than or equal to directron.com, especially places that will assemble the system, please let me know. Keep in mind I have looked at about

40 sites so far (including mini-itx.com) and while there are lots of places to buy mini-itx hardware, directron.com was the only one I found where I could build a complete system for under $200 including shipping -- most were over $300.

-Tim Wilfong snipped-for-privacy@techslinger.com

Reply to
Tim Wilfong
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Try these links

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Just a couple I found lookingf for small form factor systems.

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Paul E. Bennett ....................
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Reply to
Paul E. Bennett

Paul E. Bennett wrote in message news:cl3lmd$f0j$1$ snipped-for-privacy@news.demon.co.uk...

Thanks for trying to help, but I actually already mentioned mini-itx.com in my post, right at the end. Long post, I know, so I don't blame you for not reading it all. I have spent many hours (over the course of a week or so) searching the net and doing research before I even made my original post. My problem is that "while there are lots of places to buy mini-itx hardware, directron.com was the only one I found where I could build a complete system for under $200 including shipping -- most were over $300." Don't get me wrong, mini-itx.com is a great starting point, and a great place to read reviews, learn about mini-itx, see what other people do, etc. But their prices are outragous! (They have to pay for all that content somehow.) The cheapest motherboard they have is $113 (which is not too horrible for that particular motherboard) and the cheapest case they have is $81 (and I've seen this same case a few places for under $50.) I've bought a couple components from their site in the last year or so, and for single systems where price isn't a big deal, they are a good source, but if you need to buy components frequently or in bulk there are much better places. Directron.com is one that I've found, but I'd like more choices, and I'm hoping other people have found "other places to buy VIA EPIA motherboards, cases, etc, at prices less than or equal to directron.com, especially places that will assemble the system."

These guys don't have any systems for under $800. I'm only interested in systems that are under $250. I might take a look at systems that are as high as $275 if they are really wiz-bang.

Perhaps there is a better forum to post my question on... One that the vendors I am interested in would be reading?

-Tim

Reply to
Tim Wilfong

Bunch of NCD X Terminals from a salvage place? :-) I missed the original post so don't know what you intend to use the clients for, of course...

J.

Reply to
Jules

Have you looked at idotpc.com ?

Reply to
ray

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If you look at the part where I list the solutions I've found so far that come close to my requirements, the sixth URL that I list is idotpc.com. So yes, I have looked at it. I didn't mention that iboxpc.com also lists the same iBox systems at the same price as idotpc.com. I didn't mention the falcon PC (their cheapest mini itx solution,) which is under $200, but is a bit too big, and has a larger power supply with an extra fan -- not worth saving the $10 since I don't need the space or the power for my app and would prefer smaller, more energy-efficient systems.

-Tim

Reply to
Tim Wilfong

Hi Tim,

I've recently received such a system from idotpc. If you order the model with the fanless 533MHz processor, you can disconnect the included case fan, it's not needed, or at least that is the general consensus that I have read and also my experience. A neat, solid system!

- Richard

Reply to
Richard Ames

Thanks for the feedback, Richard. Did you get the Falcon or the Slim PC?

Reply to
Tim Wilfong

OK, I haven't waded through all the specs, but how about an X-box game system?

Reply to
ray

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Short form of spec #2: Must be under $200 not including monitor/keyboard/mouse. 128MB RAM (64MB is acceptable if well under $200,) pentium-2 or better processing power, ethernet/video/sound/serial ports, either comes with bootable flash/USB drive or is capable of PXE boot, and uses (hopefully way) less than 25W of power (not including monitor.)

X-box unit probably meets all of these except the power requirement, but would need to be modded. Might be a way to go for a development platform, but since this is for deployment in the office, probably not acceptable.

-Tim

Reply to
Tim Wilfong

FYI at

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I find the following specs for the xbox:

The Xbox is essentially a PC sold by Microsoft as a gaming console, because they intend the user only run games on it. Xbox prices in most countries are less than 1/2 the price of a low-end PC, and refurbished or used models are widely available for even less. As proof that the Xbox is essentially a PC, here's a short list of the internal components:

  • Intel Celeron 733 MHz CPU * 64 MB of RAM (enough for most Linux applications - if you need more, it can be upgraded, but extensive soldering is involved) * nVidia GeForce 3 graphics card (on most versions) * Dolby Digital AC97 sound card * 8 or 10 GB hard disk * DVD drive * 10/100 EtherNet port
  • 4 USB ports (cleverly disguised as custom joystick ports)

The Xbox comes in a nice, portable form-factor, is smaller and lighter than most PCs, and is quieter. The best feature is that any television can serve as a monitor, and VGA and HDTV are possible with an appropriate adapter.

Reply to
ray

The X-Box hardware is sponsered by the manufacturer, as they request royalties from all the game producers and thus get their profit from the selling of games and so nearly give away the hardware. Here you see that your price idea is quite impossible.

-Michael

Reply to
Michael Schnell

That was the Slim PC, which is just their name for a built up Cubid 2677 case, Mini-ITX board and a stick of RAM. All of these parts are available elsewhere, as presented here...

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I've seen the Falcon case at Fry's, and it isn't nearly as solid as the Cubid case, which is mostly steel.

Also, this web based forum used to have a sticky post that tracked prices from various Mini-ITX vendors, but I don't see it there now...

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Still, it's probably a good place to ask your question.

- Richard

Reply to
Richard Ames

This sponsoring thing doesnt mean you cant buy them, strip from HDD and enclosure, put in racks and use for whatever you like. At least not in a normal country (apparently USA was a normal country some time ago, but lost it recently for allmighty dollar).

Pozdrawiam.

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Reply to
RusH

~25-30W if you remove the HDD/DVD and wont use any 3D/CPU intensive software

Pozdrawiam.

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Reply to
RusH

You are absolutely right on that. BTW, mini-itx.com lists

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as a source for the Cubid 2677, and if you configure a barebones system from them with a 2677R case, VIA EPIA 533Mhz, and 128MB RAM, looks like the same system as the base config for the iBox Slim PC, and is exactly the same price (to the penny -- $212) before shipping and taxes. Haven't checked out who has lower shipping or wether either sells tax-fee to WA state.

I also ran accross computergate.com, which I looked at before and discounted, because they are slightly higher priced than directron.com, but I looked again and the difference is only a couple dollars more for most items and is less for some. From either, I can get the same components as the iBox slim PC (without assembly) for around $30 less. Unless the system is just for my home use, or I'm only dealing with one or two, I'd usually rather buy from a vendor that will assemble and test, and pay a little more. Still can't see an option with either computergate or directron to to do that with a mini-itx system.

I think I'll post there as well. Thanks again.

Reply to
Tim Wilfong

On the contrary, my price-point is attainable. I listed the URLs to 2 systems in my original post that are both under $200, and meet all my specs (even using as little as 12W power,) but the vendors didn't list their shipping, so they will probably be slightly more than $200 after shipping. I can also buy all the parts to assemble my own at directron.com for $186, including shipping, but it's worth something close to $20 per system to me to have the systems shipped already assembled and tested, so I'm probably not going to buy them there. I was hoping for more choices than I initially listed, and some people have sent me links to alternate vendors (thanks) which are just a little over $200, but so far the only pre-built systems that come under $200 are from channel.com.tw, and maybe from norhtec.com and solarpc.com. Maybe they are the only vendors out there with these products at that price...

Great point! In fact, if you re-use the HD and DVD drive for some other application, the re-purposed XBox ends up being cheaper than a low-end mini-itx system. But, in my case, the extra work to do that (ignoring for now the higher power requirements of the XBox, even without DVD and HD) make this a poor choice. I need somewhere that I can buy 2-3 or sometimes

10 of these at a time, and have them shipped to me ready to be deployed.

-Tim

Reply to
Tim Wilfong

What are you going to use for firmware? ISTR there is a complicated interlock between firmware and hardware and software load, designed to prevent the unit from running "not approved" software. There was some discussion about Linux on XBox or Sony PS/2 (Sony's Linux H/W kit was $100s and is no longer available, I believe?). You have to get handy at hardware and software hacking to use them. I suspect you would also be in violation of some kind of EULA from M$ or Sony. ISTR the M$ software EULA forbids you from running their software on another O/S (i.e. not Windoze).

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Juhan Leemet
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Juhan Leemet

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