Lead free solder - exposed in a UK national newspaper

I feel like I know exactly what you're thinking, because that is what I used to think too! But I kept meeting people who told me, "I'm so glad I had it done" that at one point, it was the next thing to try, to see if I could recover from my chronic health problems.

I didn't expect to notice *any* improvement right away, and I'd never heard of that happening. But it did. After the painkillers wore off and I got a night's sleep, the very next day I got a definite, very-hard-to-ignore boost in mental acuity, and to use an overused saying, "felt like a fog had been lifted off me". Nothing else had changed in my life that could have accounted for that.

I had put off having it done for about 10 years due to the cost, ordeal of it, and because I never had anything objective to latch onto to feel confident that it would result in any kind of noticeable improvement. Other people I've talked to don't get any, but they're usually still "glad they had it done."

"YMMV" is the simplest answer I can give to you, and there's not much of any way anyone can tell you in advance what your experience would be.

As compared to say, other people who also have amalgam fillings? ;-) Unfortunately, that's the rub of it. Heavy metal toxicity is usually very sneaky. It sinks in gradually, and you can't tell it's there, and I think for almost all cases, it never gets bad enough to cause acute symptoms that doctors can diagnose.

But then I heard of a woman (friend of a friend) who was suffering from MS for many years, and after a lot of other things, she tried getting her mercury fillings removed. And then she simply recovered! So who knows? There's no proof that the mercury removal did it, but she had no other explanation for it. (Miracle?)

BTW, I regret that I cannot reveal personal details about other people, to protect both them and dentists who remove mercury fillings. Dentists are still persecuted by the ADA and other organizations in some areas.

Jay Ts

Yes and no and/or maybe. :) Mercury is released during removal, so you'd need to find a dentist that observes proper technique for the operation. If you can, find one that has been trained by Dr. Huggins, the guy who brought this issue into the public view with his book "It's All in Your Head". (Hint: search Amazon.com for that, and check out the reader comments too.)

I've heard that there are many dentists doing mercury removal, and you need to be careful to find one that does it "right".

Some dentists even have something like a DMM to check electric potentials of each filling, to make sure to take them out in the proper order. I'm not kidding! (And no, I don't have any idea if the theory that is based on is really scientifically grounded or not.)

I might die tomorrow, and if it happens, that's not a problem for me. What DOES matter is that I have a high-quality and enjoyable life with value in the meantime.

Jay Ts

That's what the ADA and ADA-trained dentists like to say. It is my opinion that they are in deep denial regarding the issue. Not surprising considering that the ADA was formed by a bunch of mercury-using dentists who got together and decided that dentists in the organization were not allowed to tell their patients that mercury was bad for them.

However, the information that I've reviewed says that there have been research studies done that have shown it's just not true - mercury dissolves a little in saliva, and a lot more in acidic stuff like lemon juice, tomatoes or carbonated beverages.

I haven't actually read it, but I expect there's a lot more informatin on this in Dr. Huggins' book.

So keeping in mind that I'm not an expert...

I think the rate of dissolution varies with individual body chemistry, and the type, number and condition of fillings. And some people seem to be a lot better than others at flushing out toxins from their body (I'm in the low end on that one, so I have to be a lot more careful). Or maybe some people are simply more tolerant of having toxic bodies. To me, there seem to be a lot of people in that category.

I regret the pun, but I find the whole topic of mercury filling toxicity, along with the general topic of heavy metal toxicity to be a "grey area" (sorry:). It's really difficult to pin down in a well-defined manner in a way that doesn't beg for debate. The more I've studied it, the closer it seems to "conspiracy theory". I wish it were simpler.

Jay Ts

Bullshit. A filling is so small that no meter made can read the resistance of it, nor is there an instrument than can measure any subtle differences from one to the next. That is aside from the fact that one would have to have the filling out to be able to access it across its breadth in order to take any such reading to begin with.

Total and utter bullshit.

Is Rosie O'Retard your favorite celebrity?

More bullshit. Back when that organization was formed, silver/mercury amalgam filling were all there was available for the task. So no "selling" was required, nor practiced, idiot.

Thank you so kindly for your warm reception to my post.

I was merely passing on the information because I had found it amusing. I thought it was fun to mention it and go "on topic" for the newsgroup as a change of pace. :) But you didn't seem to get the intent or the joke. I am so sorry.

They don't measure resistance. To re-include the full context:

| Some dentists even have something like a DMM to check electric | potentials of each filling, to make sure to take them out in | the proper order. I'm not kidding! (And no, I don't have any | idea if the theory that is based on is really scientifically | grounded or not.)

I put it right there in front of you: They measure ELECTRIC POTENTIAL otherwise known as "VOLTAGE", between a filling and a reference point.

It has to do with electricity... different metals in a salty solution, currents and movement of metal ions. Of course, there's absolutely no physics behind that, right?

Seriously, I don't know if tiny currents in the mouth could dislodge enough mercury to cause a problem, ok? The people who come up with these ideas are dentists, not physicists. Sometimes they are just off on some parts. But I haven't read Dr. Huggins' book, so I shouldn't knock him without listening openmindedly first. The guy has saved a lot of people. Take a look at the reader comments on his book at Amazon.com.

Other than your mention of it, I have no awareness of that entity. Apparently, you are much more of a fan than I. :)

Again, thanks very much for your post, I think that made my day.

Peace and Happiness,

Jay Ts

Hmmm. Your passion for this subject is clear. I do, however, remain unconvinced that this is anything other than placebo effect, which has been shown in proper clinical trials, to be an extremely powerful entity. As far as I am aware - and I haven't read anything about this for some time - the human body is not good at removing heavy metal toxins from itself, without external help, so I would be surprised if your body had managed to just 'clean itself' - especially overnight - of any mercury that might have been in there as a result of your fillings.

As far as fillings dissolving as a mechanism for getting the mercury into your body goes, I have some that have been in my mouth untouched for probably 30 years. All of the saliva / beer / coca cola / lemon juice / tea / coffee / other drinks, don't seem to have touched them one iota. If they are smaller than they were, then it's by a fraction of a mm. I attend a dentist regularly, and he has not seen fit to replace any of these long-term fillings through reason of them being worn below what is acceptable for their function. He has, of course, had to replace the odd one from time to time over the 35 years that I have known him, for clinical reasons.

Considering the (relatively) small proportion of the filling that is mercury in the first place, any such mercury ingression as a result of this dissolution, must be infinitessimally small, and probably absolutely negligible in comparison to other sources of mercury ingression, such as airborne from power stations or in the many pounds of tuna fish that I have eaten over the years. If you could show me a study that didn't call on hearsay and personal anecdotal evidence, and that could show that a body's mercury content decreased, or at least arrested in its upward climb after such fillings had been removed, then I might be more inclined to accept that there's something in it. Can you show any such study conducted under proper scientific protocols ?

Arfa

Gold and early plastics were already in use before amalgams were introduced. Just now I found that information in the entry for "dentistry" in The New International Encyclopaedia in Google Books. There were also other materials in use, including lead and tin. (Note for the dense: that is me playfully trying to go on-topic again. :)

According to a Wikipedia article linked below, amalgams came into use "because they are malleable, durable, and more affordable than gold or composites."

In other words, because they are _cheap_ and _easy_. :)

The info in my previous post came to me through a holistic, mercury-free dentist, who may have been a little biased. The story was that there were dentists at the time (c. 1850, roughly) who were against the use of mercury, and started an organization that included only those dentists. But another organization was formed by the mercury-using dentists, and they won, eclipsing the first one. That is now the American Dental Association (ADA).

The article said that the term "quack" came from the mercury-using dentists. "Quack" was short for "quicksilver", another term for mercury. This article at Wikipedia more-or-less supports that info:

And there is a link at the bottom of that page to this one, on Dental Amalgam Controversy:

Information in that article supports my comment about the origin of the ADA. See the section, "History and overview". It does a lot better, but I think I did pretty well considering I was going on a single article handed to me 8 years ago, before I had Wikipedia, and I was going just on memory of that.

Jay Ts

Would require a MAJOR reduction in the birth-rate though, at least initially, in order to avoid over-population. This reminds me of Tim Leary's "SMILE" formula - the three major areas of development for the species over the coming decades should/will be (SM) = Space Migration, (I^2) = Increasing Intelligence, and (LE) = Life Extension. Despite the fact that he was a drugged-out nutter, these seem to me to be quite reasonable objectives.

Cheers, Pete.

one reply got into print

• The Guardian, * Thursday April 10 2008

Getting the lead out

Thank you for publishing the article on tin whiskers (Within a whisker of failure, April 3). Too much attention has been given to well-meaning people who are pushing the environmental agenda but with very little science behind what they are trying to achieve. Some of the green community captured the public attention and pushed through the no lead on electronics, when there was not sufficient test data available (actually there was a lot of data on US military aircraft). Now we are finding the problems of having a political agenda and not one based on science and facts. Steven Adamson, IMAPS president and Asymtek market manager

-- Diverse Devices, Southampton, England electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on

Very nicely put by Mr Adamson and, whilst The Guardian is not one of my favourite rags, all credit to them for at least publishing a reply that swims against the tide, and does not tow the government line ... It's good to see some 'alternative' views finally making themselves heard in the public domain !

Arfa

I grind my teeth a lot at night, and my mercury fillings never rasp found twinkle fertilizer instilled doric plate.

"The"???

Ok, but that makes Junior the ASS troll.

I totally understand, and if things had gone just a little differently in my life, I might have written something very similar to what you did just above.

Aside from appearances, I really don't want to try to convince people. If anything, my motivation for writing on the topic of heavy metal toxicity here is to share my personal experiences, and maybe help others.

The _last_ thing I want is for people to read my posts, and immediately decide, based solely on what I wrote, to go get their mercury fillings removed. Or for that matter, make any huge change in their lifestyle. If that happened, it would _seriously_ disturb me. I do not want to have that much responsibility over anyone else's life. I would very likely decide to stop posting stuff online for at least 2 years, while I tried to figure out what went wrong and how to avoid it ever happening again in the future.

I am not such an expert, and my own story is not compelling enough, that I alone can or should have any effect such as that. But some people might want to look into the subject more, and suspect that some health issue may be related to heavy metals in their body, and carefully explore options.

If you're looking for something like that, then you need to consult an expert on the subject. You might be able to find something through those Wikipedia links I posted yesterday. I was really surprised at how much has happened in this area since I first learned about it.

I don't think I can do better discussing this subject than post the links, as I said in my other post today. If this thread doesn't go any farther for me, I want to at least thank all the people who disagreed with me, even "Archimedes", for pushing me to find the additional information that supports what I had earlier written.

I'm wise enough to know that there is a completely different side to the matter. Someone else can take the position that mercury is safe, and some people have even argued that it has benefits, and supported that position with scientific research. This amazes me, but the bottom line is that if you believe or believe in something, and decide that it is "what's real", it will at least seem real to you, and the darned thing about it is that you'll perceive all sorts of evidence to support your reality. So I try to respect other people in their views (even Archimedes, although that's definitely a challenge).

Peace to everyone,

Jay Ts

Sorry, I'm new here. But yes, it's quite obvious at this point.

Jay Ts

Except for the fact that the person that wrote that horseshit is the troll.

All I did was call you stupid.

The truth hurts, eh?

On behalf of those that are able to debate a subject on its merits, instead of spewing profanity laced drivel, I would like to thank you for taking the time to detail your experiences. I find them rather interesting reading.

I'm undecided on the amalgam issue, but do recognize that some people are more sensitive to toxins than others. What works for some, may not work for everyone. Congratulations on your recovery.

I blundered across this article on how much of the methyl mercury found in the water supply may come from dentists working with mercury:

One of my customers is manufacturer of dental apparatus and a former dentist. I once asked him for his position on the mercury issue. The answer was something like "total useless". However, when I asked why, I got an interesting answer. At the time, there was a surplus of dentists. The leading dental colleges were controlling admissions. Americans in general were getting better dental care, fewer cavities, and fewer profits. Dental insurance plans were becoming part of employee health insurance plans. Dentists were looking for ways to "fill the dentist chair". He theorized that filling replacement was one expensive way to do that. I tend to agree, having been propositioned by my current dentist. As this procedure is NOT covered by dental insurance plans, the hourly rate can be astronomical.

Recently, hard times have caused many companies to limit employee benefits. Usually the dental insurance is the first to go. The result is that many poorer families do not visit the dentist as often. There is also a large (illegal) immigrant population that generally lacks dental care. This article sorta hints at the problem:

Thanks again.

Is THAT why you wear a different pair of you mommy's stockings every day?

...and you live with stupid!

You couldn't stand the truth, Dimbulb.