Cost of a Traffic Signal ??

I have a "T" intersection near my house.

The "cross" of the "T" has right-of-way with a speed limit of 55, but usual speeds are 70:

EW (Pecos Road) |-(stop sign) | | (Desert Foothills)

View to the west is blind due to a slightly rising hill.

Traffic density on Pecos has recently increased dramatically due to a new freeway section opening several miles to the east.

I have been harping at the city to do something about this unsafe intersection but was told basically "tough, you're not getting a traffic light anytime soon and they don't put stop signs on feeders", but he'd grace my complaint by repainting the white front-edge stripe (done last Tuesday or Wednesday) and would trim the trees to the west.

Friday night a woman died in an accident there when she was T-boned trying to get onto Pecos eastbound from Desert Foothills.

My question: What does it cost (purchase and install) for a traffic light?

I'm going to suggest that the family sue the city for 100X the cost of a traffic light.

...Jim Thompson

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|  James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
|  Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
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Reply to
Jim Thompson
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The usual approach is to do a "REDUCED SPEED LIMIT" to say 35-45MPH on Pecos in the vicinity of that intersection with possible flashing CAUTION sign on both sides. If you have a record of making the city aware of the problem then I would say they're doubly in for it.

Reply to
Fred Bloggs

A quick google search leads me to think that it's around 100-125K. So, around $10M-12M.

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VA 100K
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IN

124K

Best regards, Spehro Pefhany

--
"it's the network..."                          "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
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Reply to
Spehro Pefhany

A few years ago, I read the average cost in Calgary (urban environment) was about Cdn$50,000.

I was living in a very traffic-congested area, and they installed a new one that I suspected would not make much difference. It didn't, in my experience. Previously I could usually negotiate my way into the apartment complex through the stalled traffic. The light made it slightly easier, and thus perhaps safer, but I don't recall seeing any collisions there in about four years, and if there were they would probably not cause serious injury.

I think the traffic planners have two aims in deciding where to install lights - collision reduction and improved traffic flow. Sometimes a light can help with both of these, though they are sometimes orthogonal. Both camps ('citizens for better flow' & 'citizens for better safety') are making apparently good cases for resources, and it can be difficult to prioritize fairly.

I did discuss one situation with them, and they adjusted a left filter timing in the morning peak, which did improve things (flow). I was quite impressed with their reasoning against my original proposal (on safety grounds), and their alternative suggestion.

--
John W Hall 
Cochrane, Alberta, Canada.
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Reply to
John Hall

Jim -

By any chance, did you send in your complaint registered mail return receipt requested? I believe that the way most local jurisdictions work is that they assume liability, once a complaint has been "officially" registered.

Reply to
Baphomet

I sent it by E-mail to my city councilman, who acknowledged it and said he would have the traffic department call me. They did call but fluffed me off... *not* a good thing to do to the masked avenger ;-)

...Jim Thompson

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|  James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
|  Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
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Reply to
Jim Thompson

Isn't there a presumed assumption, in a legal sense, that roads and related infrastructure are inherently dangerous, and that safety is the responsibility of the driver?

-- Mike --

Reply to
Mike

True. But the city has been previously advised that the intersection has hazards that can be alleviated.

...Jim Thompson

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|  James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
|  Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
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Reply to
Jim Thompson

related

All hazards can be alleviated, that doesn't mean it makes sense to do it. I for one would not like a man in front of my car with a red flag but it would certainly stop most of the fatalities.

Reply to
Mjolinor

related

Absolutely, but let's take an extreme example of a sinkhole opening up in the middle of the street. In most local jurisdictions, once they have been officially notified, and that usually requires it to be sent snail mail registered return receipt (no e-mail need apply), any injuries that accrue due to the localities negligence in performing a timely repair, become actionable.

In this particular case where an improvement is being sought for safety reasons, I suspect that you would have to have sufficient documentation as to a history of previous accidents or near accidents. Then it should probably be presented to the Planning Board for their consideration. They forward their findings to the village/town/city board who give it a thumbs up or down and then pass it on to the Department of Transportation for their consideration. They are normally very cooperative when a proposal has the imprimatur of local government.

Proper procedure (and I'm sure it varies somewhat from jurisdiction to jurisdiction) should be followed so as to allow a minimum of wiggle room for the bureaucrats to two step their way out of.

Reply to
Baphomet

of

I

would

Unfortunately, stupidity (the biggest hazard of them all) doesn't lend itself easily to legislation.

Reply to
Baphomet

There are also budget issues. It might be nice to get rid of 100% of all railway level crossings, but it would cost too much for taxpayers. So they pick what they think are the most dangerous crossings and put the $millions each into upgrading those first. Aside from the capital cost, they require maintenance and eventual replacement. At some point they do have to put a value on a life- if it's going to cost $5M to upgrade the crossing and one person on average will be killed every 5 years, in a place with an average income of $xxK, maybe it won't get done.

A hotel I stayed at recently (in Indiana) was located on a service road beside the interstate. The service road had absolutely no lighting and ran dead-straight parallel to the interstate until it made a sudden unusually sharp and poorly marked right turn to curve down and intersect the cross street. The cross street was somewhat elevated and shielded by earth etc. so you could not see traffic there as an indicator. There were five or six different shrines to dead motorists at the sharp bend.

Best regards, Spehro Pefhany

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"it's the network..."                          "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
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Reply to
Spehro Pefhany

Jim,

A friend of mine tried the same thing in Santa Barbara/CA. She was finally told that it would take 10 major accidents (or 3 deaths) before the city would consider puttinging in a traffic signal. That is the 'cost' of putting in a traffic signal in California!

--
Luhan Monat, "LuhanKnows" At 'Yahoo' dot 'Com'
http://members.cox.net/berniekm
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Reply to
Luhan Monat

Luhan, you got it...I'm in California too and after several fatalies they get serious. There used to be a mountain intersection up on Hwy 17 that connects silicon valley to Santa Cruz. It wasn't until a carload of people, a mother and her 2 kids was obliterated by a 80,000 lb big rig full of sand that they put in an overpass. And that was not the only fatality. Of course, the taxpayers in California, are too busy paying for soundwalls and overpriced utility commodities to solve problems that cause fatalities!

Reply to
Ross Mac

people,

sand

course,

Oh, by the way, they named the bridge after the dead women...California politics in action....Arnie has his hands full with this mess!!!

Reply to
Ross Mac

Congratulations.....

I, otherwise known as the one who is using the keyboard at the moment, seem to remember that the other one, who is not using the keyboard at the moment remembers that one, or multiple ones, of your siblings entered the legal profession, or became accountants. The other one tells me you appeared to be quite proud about their 'achievements'.

Why not ask them....?

It is interesting to consider the fact that 'Old Folks' used 'the system' to benefit themselves when they were 'Young Folks'. Now they are 'Old Folks' they have a sudden desire to manipulate the system to........ benefit themselves.

And then they moan about it.

Be a true altruist or, shut the f*ck up.

DNA

Reply to
Genome

DNA: Altruism is Evil. Haven't you gotten your dose of Ayn Rand?

Best regards, Spehro Pefhany

--
"it's the network..."                          "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
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Reply to
Spehro Pefhany

DNA/Genome/Whatever is nonexistent in my world.

Everyone should do likewise.

...Jim Thompson

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|  James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
|  Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
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Reply to
Jim Thompson

That's why I'm easy...... oh oh oh oh, I'm easy like Sunday morning........

Two birds.....

DNA

Reply to
Genome

On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 15:40:35 GMT, Fred Bloggs Gave us:

Don't shit yerself. Governments are notorious for squirming out of being made to pay restitution for acts which were the cause of regular folks' pain and suffering.

Reply to
DarkMatter

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