Zynq devices, boards and suppliers

I'd like to pick people's brains about aspects of different *suppliers* of Zynq boards. Avnet and Digilent are front-runners, but any info/opinions about other suppliers would be helpful too.

- ease of using their embedded linux. My needs are simple, requiring a shell and TCP/IP protocols over ethernet. GUI not required, but might be used if it didn't complicate the development.

- quality of online support. How easy is it likely to be to find the information so that I can (a) duplicate any supplied demo environment and (b) mutate it so that my code accesses my programmable logic

- board production longevity. I'm not concerned about decades, but I would be concerned if a board was unobtainable within months

- ISE or Vivado environment

Background and context...

I'm intending to develop something based around a small Xylinx Zynq device. Cost is an issue, but not to the extent that I will be developing a board containing the FPGA itself. I will, however, be developing a small simple add-on board containing my analogue circuits.

Now I can read a datasheet and schematic and outline to determine the extent to which a board is suitable. However, as we are all aware, those documents /don't/ cover all the important points when choosing a board!

I've created many stand-alone hardware and software embedded systems, but *not* based on linux *nor* on ARM

*nor* in the Xilinx ecosystem. Since Zynq devices represent a complex environment, I'll have a learning curve (good, I like challenges), and I'm interested in the quality of the resources and support that I'll need to overcome my misapprehensions.
Reply to
Tom Gardner
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If you don't need it now, you might take a look at the Parallella board:

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Currently they have some issues with EOL parts and re-designing parts of the board, so it will be delayed a bit. But I guess there are not much boards with the Zynq chip for $99, and you get a lot of peripherals, too, and of course the Epiphany coprocessor. And the Zynq chip used on the Parallella board is supported by the free Xilinx ISE version:

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Linux is already working for the board (Ubuntu, well, you can't have anything, but should be not too difficult to port Debian for it). Even if you don't use it for your project later, might be a good starting point to learn to program the Zynq.

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Reply to
Frank Buss

Thanks.

I'd looked at that board a while ago, but at that time it was insufficiently real. Having seen the standard of some "open source" hardware[*] I'd like to see it be used in anger before I committed to it. Contrariwise, longevity might not be such an issue!

The low cost is remarkable. Before committing, I'd want to find out: - how to disable or ignore the Epiphany processor, since it isn't useful to me - what proportion of the programmable logic resources would be available for me to use for my logic

[*] and some COTS hardware for that matter :(
Reply to
Tom Gardner

You are taking a risk in basing a product on a development board - they aren't sold with that in mind and the suppliers don't see long term availability as part of the deal. There are quite a lot of boards based on the Zynq around - eg: Mars ZX3- Zynq-7000 SO-DIMM module (which I have not used and don't recommend o not recommend.) You should be able to find a board with long term support and actually intended for OEM supply.

Michael Kellett

Reply to
MK

Thanks. Your points are well noted. Fortunately it isn't actually for a product, only a prototype.

My concern is that I want/need decent documentation and/or community support - and that might not be there with a board that only has a very short production life.

Fundamentally I want to grab my data, process it and display it. I don't want to become an expert in creating a linux for board Munge v0.9 using tool Frobnatz v123.456!

Hence my questions about /which/ suppliers/toolsets that people have found to be "reliable" by the above definition.

Reply to
Tom Gardner

Hi

I work for a company where we have not discontinued any of our FPGA modules, we are offering them as long the parts are available, module lifetimes 10+years.

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It is pretty standard zynq linux ready board. Marvell PHY, SMSC USB all standard. We do support our customers, also prototype level users.

It is maybe not visible on the website, but we have put a lot of effort into zynq development

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this is how to debug and profile linux app on our board with free tools from ARM

I was surprised how painless that was. just write hello.c connect ETH cable and download run and profile it on zynq.

br Antti Lukats

Reply to
Antti

I can't suggest any specific boards, but

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might be of some interest. Its last few entries are about a Zynq-based project. Maybe posting to the blog's comment section will get some suggestions.

Reply to
Paul Rubin

Thank you for your pointer.

I have already bookmarked Trenz since I had seen a good range of products there. The range looks like a justification for your useful comment about modules' longevity.

I will dig around in the wiki to have a look at how the tools would enable me to extend a helloworld.c program to one that peeks/pokes my specific programmable logic and also communicates over ethernet.

Reply to
Tom Gardner

Thanks for the pointer. Bookmarked.

A quick scan indicates some points that I don't feel are relevant to me, and some which may or may not be once I've read them more carefully.

Reply to
Tom Gardner

Hi Tom,

we are working several projects that transfer data from ADC/DAC over ethernet.

In on case we converted existint application from Spartan6 to Zynq in a week, this included IP conversion and rewrite of C programs from baremetal to linux.

Antti

Reply to
Antti

I've now had a more detailed look, and my initial comments are unchanged.

Overall the October 2 entry (FPGA is for freedom) comes across as a bit of a rant, but it does contain useful information.

The "uploads your design to Xilinx" for the zero cost toolset is, of course, less than desirable. It is a valid way of filtering out the commercial business from the free hobbyist sectors.

The claimed limitations of the software wizard for generating the memory interface is not good news -- and is just the kind of information I was hoping to elicit with my question. I would be curious to know whether or not the tool accurately reflects the silicon's capabilities.

The "DLL hell" (or linux equivalent!) is also bad news. Not sure what the solution would be if I suffered the same problem. Fortunately I have a newly-installed Xubuntu LTS, so it /ought/ to minimise the chance!

FSBL proprietary binary blob. I don't care if it is proprietary, /provided/ it works correctly. To me it is merely an extension of the config bitmap :)

Reply to
Tom Gardner

Enclustra's attitude of "we'll show you this documentation only /after/ you've become a customer" doesn't endear them to me. But that's their commercial decision.

They may be very good, but I would like to be able to evaluate that for myself! Shame.

Reply to
Tom Gardner

I know it doesn't have an FPGA, but if you need to add a board to it for the outer interface, you should check out the Beagle Board Black. It has amazing capability and LOTS of varied I/O pins, for $45! Runs a complete Linux system, but can be used "headless" (ie. no screen) easily. Your added board can have an FPGA or CPLD on it, if you are designing a board already, it is quite easy if you won't be running at high clock speeds. I do a bunch of CPLD and FPGA boards with only 2-sided PCBs. I have even run Spartan 3A and 3AN FPGAs on 2-sided boards with no trouble.

Jon

Reply to
Jon Elson

Do you know anything about the microzed? I just heard of it, and it looks interesting:

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Also the Zybo:

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Reply to
Paul Rubin

They do indeed look interesting for my purposes, but I only know what I can read on the web.

So, we would /both/ like some info about the suppliers :)

Reply to
Tom Gardner

We're just starting on a uZed signal-processing project. It will be a uZed plugged into a motherboard that has power, clock, signal input and output networks, ADC, DAC, connectors, and miscellaneous stuff. We bought two uZed boards from Avnet and they power up running Linux. My programmer and FPGA guys are just now learning how to write a C app that interacts with the FPGA, but the documentation seems good and they are making good progress. I'll be doing the architecture and designing the hardware.

I took some pictures. The ones in the ZED documentation are mediocre.

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John Larkin                  Highland Technology Inc 
www.highlandtechnology.com   jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com    
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Reply to
John Larkin

Thanks, that's useful, and I will be *most* interested to hear how it goes.

Out of curiosity, how long ago did you buy them and how long did they take to materialise? Currently Avnet are showing no stock and 5 weeks lead time.

Worryingly, it has been "5 weeks" for the past 3 weeks - so I'm concerned that Avnet have "lost interest" in the board. Any info about Avnet's support practices would be useful.

Reply to
Tom Gardner

It took about a week to get two, several weeks ago. They can probably find some for good customers. We buy a lot of stuff from them, and it was "get us a couple and we'll design them in."

The good part is that the design, including Gerbers, is fully public, so we (or someone) can build them if we have to. It will save us a ton of time, as compared to doing all that pcb-layout/flash/dram/ethernet/power supply/software stuff ourselves.

I hope they are serious about it. They have sure invested a lot so far.

The carrier/demo board is apparently not real yet. We'll have our own application board first, with spare room, so we'll add in some development hooks for future projects. Suggestions are welcome....

Mictor connector for a logic analyzer Pots for the ADC inputs A few SMB connectors for scope trigger/signal snooping Shunts to measure Vcc and bank currents Easy ways to vary iobank voltages Dip switches and LEDs Temperature sensor IC Clock oscillators

--
John Larkin                  Highland Technology Inc 
www.highlandtechnology.com   jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com    
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Reply to
John Larkin

That big wire on the back of the board in your photo is interesting. Although red in color, it looks like what's traditionally called a "blue wire", i.e. maybe they're out of stock right now because the board is in the process of being revved.

Reply to
Paul Rubin

I ordered one mid-September when the leadtime was "1 week". That sounded a little suspicious so I went to web chat support and got "4 weeks" as the real leadtime.

It does sound like they're preparing a new rev.

Reply to
Mike Ng

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