As I was buying some components from the Xilinx online store this morning, I noticed that they no longer support silicon device anymore. It seems that it is now AVNET that is taking care of distributing Xilinx FPGA online. The worse thing is that the price is more expensive, and they do not have all the parts that Xilinx use to offer (the part I am looking for specially). Now i've got a few questions for the Xilinx people out there. Is it really true or if it not, then what is the updated link for your online section.
Go to digikey.com, and search for xilinx. The paper catalog has an extremely poor selection of Xilinx FPGAs, but the web selection is better. Their search method is awful :-( Peter Alfke, from home
Go to digikey.com, and search for xilinx. The paper catalog has an extremely poor selection of Xilinx FPGAs, but the web selection is better. Their search method is awful :-( Peter Alfke, from home
Yes, it does smack more of political reflex, than rational thinking.
Note that Microchip is moving in the _opposite_ direction - they offer quotes up to 10K, and recently added factory programming flows to their on-line order flows. In other words, they look keen for your business (all volumes), and seem less under the influence of their distributors.
I had a quick look at the Avnet link, and "not in stock, XX Weeks" was common.
Thus Xilinx sample procurement seems to have fallen thru the cracks, in this decision.
If you find Digikey's interface poor, perhaps Xilinx could learn from this web link ?
formatting link
Some other company seems to have found a way to have a web store, and an (almost)* workable Digikey link ?
-jg
I tried MAX7000, and get this bemusing response
emp7 "Manufacturer Part Number: 132 phrase not found"
What, nothing at all ?
Funny, phrase not found reported, plus a _specific_ number ?! - so I click on the 'phrase not found', as that seems to be a web link, and voila, finally, EPM7xx listings at Digikey!
Strange that, MAX 3000 works fine - so, some wrinkles to iron out here...
A little more on this : Seems strange indeed, as the 'phrase not found' seems to be trying to indicate not in stock. Only devices with MOQs and high ASPs show up. Their search button is also called "phrase not found" - oops
However, if I go straigt to Digikey, there are actually plenty of EPM7xx in stock, with no MOQs ?!
Well I have checked on Digikey and they do not have the FPGA we need, which is the XC3S200-4VQ100C. We have dealt in the past with Nuhorizons, but we've got some issues with them and we would prefer to deal directly with god. The Xilinx online shop was next to perfect and the fact that they were shipping our parts in different shipments was actually beneficial for us. It saved us on custom and duties that we had to pay, if we were to receive the parts as a whole. We are a small startup company and we have long term plans for Xilinx FPGA products. We had reached the point where we had everything running smoothly, like after fine tuning your radio receiver to the correct station, but now, we have to rework everything and adjust everything again. Tonite I am disappointed with Xilinx. :~(
Well, I'll try another attack on our demonstrated stupidity. I have screamed and hollered for almost a year, and sent e-mails up the ladder, up to one step below the very top. Maybe I have to go one stop higher. Steve Knapp and I are very frustrated about this situation. Obviously, our company could do much better... Peter Alfke, from home
But avnet won't give samples unless your a large company otherwise you have to purchase them.
If only they had some chips with a bit more grunt like an arm7 .
A lot of manufacturers need to learn from microchip.
Philips is quite good, but depends on your local distributor.
Simple , avoid using xilinx parts. Use the companies that want your business.
If the management is to stupid to realise if people can't get small quantities for prototyping and designs especially for those doing contract work, we won't use their products, bad luck ,that is their problem.
Feel free to print out all the comments here and give them to who ever you need to.
Can't they see that if you loose small sales / prototype quantities and you competitor looks after that market segment , you are just going to start bleeding sales and only be restricted to the large companies.
The small contract designers just stop using xilinx.
But a problem hits a few years down the track, when the large companies start taking on new people who prefer to use your competitors tools and devices as they are familiar with them.
Avnet can be fine for ordering boards and equipment some times but they are usually quite slow and prefer dealing with large companies.
You guys just want to give sales to Altera , Lattice etc , don't you ?
My mother did show me a picture of my dad in the history book of Estonian Aeronautics.
So the strongest male influence from my young years was one simple word, from one teacher in the 'rocket model' hobby club. This word is (its one word in estonian):
"Decision courage"
I do find this word so good one, so good that it qualifies every male giving to a child nothing more than this one word as a good father.
Xilinx removing the Spartan-3 (and possible other silicon devices) from direct online offering is a bad example of
"Decision courage-less" (one word in estonian) behaviour.
No matter if the decision to have Silicon Devices (including Spartan-3) in online shop was later seen as bad decision, it was that sort of "executive decision" that has to be kept even if it was a bad decision. Stepping back from it show the weakness of the Xilinx (executives).
There could be 3 reasons for the withdrawal (3 that I and I think most other people can figure out)
1) Xilinx sees direct sales as too much "hassle" - well if it is so, then no matter how much hassle it is, Xilinx should stick to the previous executive decision (to have the silicon devices in online shop)
2) Xilinx has serious availability and/or yield issues and removing the devices from its own online shop gives a possibility to try to hide and mascerade those yield problems - by blaming the distrubutors not having stock (but devices actually being available). Needless to say that all that kind of 'mascerade' attempts are silly and dont fulfill its purpose at the end of the day anyway.
3) Xilinx did step back because of pressure of the distributors (mainly Avnet?) - if that was the reasons then it again demonstrates nothing more than the weakness of Xilinx as global company and the weakness (decision courage-less) of Xilinx executives.
...
As of current the status of Xilinx silicon availability is getting worse -
1) Digikey should not be considered as source for Xilinx, they have some items in stock but what they have is very random, and items that they used to have may not be available any more any day (specially those you need when you need).
2) I have never dealt with NuHorizons, but all I have heard is only problems. To my emails I have never had any response from NuHorizons, so I am not considering them for anything.
3) I have had several issues with Memec before they merged into Avnet, there is no memec so no more issues :)
4) My only purchase from Avnet was 6 month late (despite order confirmation). Others have expressed the Xilinx parts availability situation from Avnet worse than from Memec
Thats are the 'sources' for Xilinx components.
Altera has direct online shop, with pretty much pricing and atock info for latest parts - everyone finds that a very good thing. Not to mention that everyone I have talked too, have said pretty much one thing - Altera's software is just simply getting better. Better and better every release/udpate.
Lattice has no direct online orders, but the stock at disties like Mouser also for latest parts (machXO, XP) is checkable with a few mouseclicks. Also other distributors claim immediate fom stock delivery (what I can also confirm personally having received the parts).
Xilinx has greatly imrpoved the price/perfomrance ration of Xilinx own evaluation boards after overpriced ML300 so my current primary source for Xilinx eval boards would be Xilinx direct (online shop), having the silicon devices orderable as side orders, would be real good thing. If they arent, well Altera has all from one shop.
Similarly as others have said already, the lack of silicon devices in oline shop is just another drop to choose alternative vendors.
And dear Xilinx, an even an ocean is made of single drops of water. It's hard to tell when last drop falls that makes the decision scale to turn over (in favor of competitive products). But every drop makes that possibility (of such decisions) closer.
Antti Lukats, Xilant Tecnologies
PS we will have some (FPGA related product) to launch soon (within 8 weeks max)
maybe we can do a petition about this xilinx store ?... i'm French user and i can affirm that Avnet France, preferer (to not says want ) only big customers .. they are slow and expensive.. totaly incompatible with prototype phase.
Maybe Xilinx prefer that we try Lattice or others parts ?...
i'm realy not happy against that problem. they can be take example from Microchip & sample service ...
( sorry for my bad english ! )
Regard's Philippe
a écrit dans le message de news: snipped-for-privacy@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
I am totally for that. Like im sure if we could get like 10,000s names, then we would have achieve something. I was thinking about how they took the decision of removing the online shop. Just recently, I noticed that they added the PROM section to the online shop. This lend me to believe that at one point, they were actually promoting and saw a future for online shopping, but something happened that made them took a 180 degrees U turn. I wouldnt be surprised if in late March 2006, the big bosses of Xilinx and Avnet had lunch in one of these fancy and they decided: Hey let's do something really bad, let's take out the online shop. And I am pretty sure that it was instigated by Avnet.
Yesterday, I was checking out their shipping policy and the way they do business for international customers. Avnet ask that you purchase a minimum order of $500, if you are from outside the states or canada. Cmon people, you would get 50 x XC3S100 for that price and this isnt prototyping anymore. Then, when I think that Xilinx advertise on their site, in big, brite and bold: "World=B4s Lowest Cost FPGAs - now available in prototyping quanties from Avnet"... ironical isnt it, makes me wonder where we are heading. Lets face it, we have a problem here and we should find a solution, and quick. Now, Peter and al, you should advise us of the possible moves that we've got in order to replace or convice your bosses of getting back our dear online shop.
i totaly agree with you. sorry my english is too poor, i can't write all i think !...
effectively, there is a minimum order on Avnet France too .. and they don't sell directly with a credit card ... if i want some parts for my personnal use.. i can't now ! :( only digikey ...
if anybody know how create & manage a petition ... let's go !
thank's philippe
a écrit dans le message de news: snipped-for-privacy@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... Hi Philippe,
I am totally for that. Like im sure if we could get like 10,000s names, then we would have achieve something. I was thinking about how they took the decision of removing the online shop. Just recently, I noticed that they added the PROM section to the online shop. This lend me to believe that at one point, they were actually promoting and saw a future for online shopping, but something happened that made them took a 180 degrees U turn. I wouldnt be surprised if in late March 2006, the big bosses of Xilinx and Avnet had lunch in one of these fancy and they decided: Hey let's do something really bad, let's take out the online shop. And I am pretty sure that it was instigated by Avnet.
Yesterday, I was checking out their shipping policy and the way they do business for international customers. Avnet ask that you purchase a minimum order of $500, if you are from outside the states or canada. Cmon people, you would get 50 x XC3S100 for that price and this isnt prototyping anymore. Then, when I think that Xilinx advertise on their site, in big, brite and bold: "World´s Lowest Cost FPGAs - now available in prototyping quanties from Avnet"... ironical isnt it, makes me wonder where we are heading. Lets face it, we have a problem here and we should find a solution, and quick. Now, Peter and al, you should advise us of the possible moves that we've got in order to replace or convice your bosses of getting back our dear online shop.
"PC" schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:44427e87$0$487$ snipped-for-privacy@news.free.fr...
Hi Jacques&Philippe et all,
it may be surprising but the amount of responses/votes would not matter at all. A simple plea at c.a.f. to restore silicon devices into Xilinx online shop would likely receive 10 to 100 responses. However this number should actually deserve as more reason for Xilinx for concerne than a 10,000 votes thing. Because those missing votes are dont care, no interest, switching to competitor, etc.
Digikey should not be considered as any choice (getting Xilinx silicon) - Digikey is great to occasionally check overall thumb guess component pricing and availability. It is ok to buy from digikey for small series, but then all components should be purchased for the full production span as any components that used to be available on Digikey may disappear anytime without notice. I had a project that was covered almost 100% from components available at Digikey, at the time it was ready for production most of those parts from the BOM where dropped by Digikey.
The matter of instant sample/proto quantity component online ordering is VERY important, and it is long recognized by almost all vendors. Either you can order free samples or buy small quantities online. Getting samples for proto or evualuation fast without hassle is important. If you have to deal with large distributor to get the sample, then you loose both time and mental health.
National has for most products with special '24hrs' sample option (well I guess for N.A. only but still) - they recognize that the speed (read immediate shipment) of samples can the factor that makes the difference.
If I can buy 10 pieces online with shipment confirmation being sent within 24hours I can safely start a design and have pilot series all finished within 2 weeks from the idea to final product prototypes.
If the part is not in stock by digikey and you need to start talking to Avnet you might be still be talking to them after two weeks. And that could be another desing loss for Xilinx. A desing loss for a project/product that could have large yearly volumes later.
The ability to do initial evaluation-testing, pilot series quickly does matter.
Antti
PS Xilinx is sure not the only one with issues getting parts and pricing.
While talking to Actel disti, haha the best price estimate for 1 off PA3E (with ARM) license was 100,000 USD !!!
They refused to give any pricing, all they told me that the arm enabled option extra price for the silicon is 1$ USD in quantities of 100.000 and that the license price is scaled down for smaller orders. (This would come to 100,000 USD price for single qty) Talking to other disti and Actel FAE was better, the arm enabled (its only a security key inside the Actel silicon) adds 120USD to the component price for quantities below 10 (and not 100,000). So smallest PA3E with arm enabled (that it the AES key) costs 150USD (not 20 as without that AES key).
Actel is pushing heavy on their ARM enabled FPGAs but OTOH they really do not want any customers with less than 100k volumes to actually use the ARM enabled silicon.
Sure this Actel case is extreme example of stupidity and Xilinx is not getting even near to this. But if other are doing bad, doesnt meant that Xilinx should follow and reduce their flexibility of the component availability by removing the silicon devices from online shop.
Xilinx is pushing towards "Make it your ASIC" that is low cost markets, and for those well you never know when a project that starts small grows really big. Or if an occasional hobby user playing with Spartan3 figures out some high volume consumer product. If that hobby user doesnt get that spartan (becuase now way to buy it) he will also never desing any high volume thing that is based on the Xilinx silicon.
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