Virtex-4 performance, where is it?

Hi

there are lots of PR news about how much better, etc..

but doing a very simple task with V4 I was really surprised:

to test max clock for an XC9572XL-5 (cuctomer needs 125MHz) I used V4 development board as programambel clock source.

100Mhz comes in, goes to DCM and goes out. nothing else

with V4LX25-10 the maximum frequency that the DCM was possible to set was

168MHz!

changing the speed grade to -11 allowed to set fout to 180MHz, but even that seems kind low for the performance leader ???

The DCM could generate a max freq of 315MHz, but that case the input frequency is required to be more than 120MHz, and my development board has only 100Mhz oscillator useable :( hopefully I am missing something and higher frequencies are actually possible too.

ok this time the 180MHz was sufficient for our testing -

XC9572XL-10 (max freq in datasheet 125MHz) did work very well until input freq 150Mz, with 180MHz the first flip started to divide by 3 surprisingly deliver very clean 60MHz clock.

Another "nice" thing the first XC95 PLD we used was not supported by Impact 6.3 !!! Xilinx has silently dropped support of some PLDs from latest ISE/impact - the XC9536 device was recognized as XC9536_unsupported !! by impact and it did not program it. funny is that the development board where this PLD was also holds a large logo of Xilinx, ah well just another thing to know...

Antti

Reply to
Antti Lukats
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From p 29 of the DS302 v1.4 Virtex 4 Data Sheet: DC and Switching Characteristics, the output clocks from the DCM in the *high frequency mode* shows 210-280 MHz capable FX outputs (for the slower -10 device) to pick up where the *low frequency mode* drops off. The input for the high frequency mode can be as low as 50 MHz if the DFS mode is all that's used.

100 MHz in, 100*M/N out up to 280 MHz in the -10 device. Check to make sure you're 1) working in HF mode and 2) you're not using the standard outputs - just the DFS.

100Mhz
Reply to
John_H

Antti,

Was this in the software tools alone? Sounds like you tried it on a pcb?

In hardware the DCM can generate output clocks up to 450 MHz (-11) (we have seen it work up to 600 MHz, I think the -12 is going to get set at

500 MHz for all corners). All outputs.

LF mode max is 150 MHz for CLK0.

HF CLKFX max (for _MS_MAX) is set at 315 MHz primarily to meet the CLKFX jitter output max issue.

CLKFX actually also goes to well over 450 MHz, but the jitter at 450 MHz for some M and D values is more than 20%, which makes CLKFX less useful.

Basically, it is a way for us to gently suggest that CLKFX not get used at these high frequencies due to the increase in jitter.

This is no different that V2, or V2P, where the CLKFX output is not as "hot" as the DLL outputs.

We have many customers who evaluate their M, D CLKIN freq, CLKFX out jitter, and go beyond the datasheet limits, but I have to say that when they do that, they will always get the frequency (it will always function), but they have to accept the risk of having too much jitter (they need to be sure they have enough slack).

Some folks pass the output to an external PLL to clean up the CLKFX output before they use it (like an icst.com ics8745 PLL/quad driver -- output jitter is ~50 ps P-P with a CLKFX input!!!).

One last comment: the input restriction when operating in HF mode (>

120 MHz) is arbitrary: it can be less. The issue again is with jitter generated. And, also with testing every single possible input frequency and every possible M and D. (Would just take too long -- even though the device is all digital, can't sell what you don't test.)

The good news is that it is not a PLL. With a PLL, testing takes forever as the PLL must lock each time (and that takes a long time, compared to the all digital DCM). So the testing we do is only as extensive as the data sheet.

[To think about: With an M/D of 10 bits total, and lets us say going from 1 MHz to 500 MHz in 1 MHz steps, that is 2E19 choices, and we have 4 modes (another 2 bits), we get >2E31 possible tests. We have to whittle that down to something that can be done in 100 ms for production test, and something that can be done in a week or two in the lab (also automated) for characterization. Oh, and we have to do this with lots of CLBs toggling, and IOs switching, too. I once figured that if it took 10 ms to do each test (we lock, measure frequency and jitter) it would take .01*2E31 = 249 days to test.]

I suggest you try it (use FPGA editor to put in the M, D and mode you want). Then measure the output jitter. If it works, and meets your needs, you may email me directly to get a Xilinx Official "OK to use" statement (i.e. we will support you forever with that combination of Fin, M, D, on that part). There are just too many combinations to support them all!

I recognize there are 'Magic Numbers' that we all end up using, so there is not an infinite number of options that get used.

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Have fun.

Austin

Reply to
Austin Lesea

Hi

I am using FX only:

Inst_m125: m125 PORT MAP( CLKIN_IN => sysclk, CLKFX_OUT => clk, CLKIN_IBUFG_OUT => open, CLK0_OUT => open, LOCKED_OUT => open );

V4LX25-10, in Xilinx Clocking Wizard setting "Max speed" fin fout LOW 24-120 24-160 HIGH 120-280 160-280

setting "Max Range" fin fout LOW 16-84 16-112 HIGH 84-168 112-168

as you see the maximum frequency when using

100MHz reflck in is 168MHz ! for -10 speed grade actually its 160 as there is no M/N ratio that producdes 168

:(

Antti

"John_H" schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:%hJTd.23$ snipped-for-privacy@news-west.eli.net...

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Reply to
Antti Lukats

"Austin Lesea" schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:cvnovq$ snipped-for-privacy@cliff.xsj.xilinx.com...

thanks for long answer, well I used the lazy approuch ie Xilinx Clock Wizard and in that tool its not possible to get more than 160MHz from 100MHz input.

in order to get around it pumped up the device speed grade to higher and selected the maximum that was possible (that was 180MHz)

and I did measure that 180MHz as output signal and used that signal to feed a PLD I did not try to set the DCM params by hand. so I dont know how much the chip actually could perform, I do belive that it could way higher than the 160MHz (or 315)

its just that the Xilinx Clocking Wizard made me wonder big time why I cant enter values for higher frequncies when I want too! There should be an super-user checkbox that allows to enter out spec values as well.

Antti

Reply to
Antti Lukats

Antti,

What is M, and what is D?

Aust> Hi

Reply to
Austin Lesea

Antti,

Would not be the first time I have seen a bug in the wizard.

Aust> "Austin Lesea" schrieb im Newsbeitrag

Reply to
Austin Lesea

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