State of MAX7000S I/O pins before programming

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In the MAX7000S datasheet, it says the I/O pins are tri-stated and (weakly)
pulled-up, to avoid board conflicts, during programming.  What should the
state of the I/O pins be _before_ programming?  I have a sample EPM7128S
device here which appears to be pulling them low - but it also fails the
blank test, so I think it must have been programmed.  How should a brand-new
part behave?




Re: State of MAX7000S I/O pins before programming
Hi Andrew Holme,

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There's some internal bit in the MAX7000A and later that says that the
device contains a valid configuration. If this bit is not set, the device
remains in tristate. In the MAX7000S, this bit is not present, but if the
device is blank, it should still stay in slightly-pulled-up-tristate.

Only if the device is not blank (this does _not_ mean that it has a _valid_
configuration), it will go out of tristate and do something.

Blank that sample and see what happens ;-)

Hope this helps.

Best regards,


Ben


Re: State of MAX7000S I/O pins before programming

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should the
EPM7128S
fails the
the
device
the
_valid_
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Thanks.


How do I do that?  Is there an option in Quartus for this?  I couldn't
see anything ....


Re: State of MAX7000S I/O pins before programming
Hi Andrew,

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Wups... I don't have an actual EPM7128S device lying around here, but from
the command line try "quartus_pgm --operation=R". If you need more help,
type "quartus_pgm --help=operation".

Best regards,



Ben


Re: State of MAX7000S I/O pins before programming
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This is what I'm getting:

C:\>quartus_pgm -c "ByteBlasterMV [LPT1]" -m JTAG --operation=R
Error: Programming option string R is illegal. Refer to --help for legal
programming option formats.

The help says:

<options> must be one of the following combinations:
P, V, B, S, E, L, PVBL, PBL, PVB, PVL, PL, VL
where
P = Program         V = Verify
B = Blank-check     L = Lock/Security Bit
S = Skip/Bypass*    E = Examine*
(* Cannot be used in combination with other options)

There doesn't appear to be an R option.

I'm using Quartus II Programmer Version 4.1 Build 181 06/29/2004 SJ Web
Edition

Does this version have an erase option?




Re: State of MAX7000S I/O pins before programming
Hi Andrew Holme,

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Hmmm... I'm using a beta of version 5.0 (only available under NDA), which
does have the option available.

Will try 4.2 tomorrow - that's the oldest workable version I have laying
around (I also have a copy of 3.0 and the initial 1996 release, but I don't
count those as current).

Best regards,



Ben


Re: State of MAX7000S I/O pins before programming
You can always search the answer at the www.altera.com.

For MAX® 7000S devices, they are shipped blank but have specific bits
set to tri-state all their I/O pins. If the part is erased, it is
blank, but the factory default tri-state bit settings are also erased
and therefore pins will no longer be tri-stated. To tri-state the
blank part again, you need to have the blank POF (programming object
file) from a factory shipped blank device that has never been
programmed. You can get the blank POF by examining a factory shipped
MAX 7000S device using the MAX+PLUS II software (Quartus II does not
support examine for MAX 7000S); the examined POF will be blank but
will have the tri-state bit settings. Programming a MAX 7000S device
with this POF will tri-state the I/Os and blank the design.

MAX 7000AE, MAX 3000A, and MAX 7000B devices differ from MAX 7000S -
if the part is blank or erased it will automatically tri-stated the
all the I/O pins and does not need tri-state bit settings. If you
erase these devices, they will tri-state all I/Os. This is because MAX
7000AE, MAX 3000A, and MAX 7000B remain tri-state until a specific bit
is set during ISP called the ISP_DONE bit. It is the last bit to be
programmed when programming the device - if that bit is not set, the
device remains tri-stated.

All MAX3000A, 7000S, 7000A, 7000B, and MAX II devices are shipped
blank from the factory. When a blank device is powered up, all of the
I/O pins are tri-stated.

If you erase a MAX 3000A, 7000A, 7000B, or MAX II device it behaves
the same as a blank new factory shipped device. The I/O pins of a
blank device are tri-stated when powered. However, this is not true
for MAX 7000S. A new factory shipped MAX 7000S device will tri-state
when powered, but if this device is erased in some manner (Jam, JBC,
SVF, etc), then the I/O pins will drive out undetermined values. This
is because a new factory shipped MAX 7000S part is blank except for
some OE control bits which are set to tri-state the I/O pins. When
erased, those OE bits are cleared and the I/O pins drive out. The only
way to get the I/O pins to tri-state again is if the customer examined
and saved the .pof from a new factory shipped MAX 7000S device.
Program a MAX 7000S with that .pof and it will behave the same as the
new factory shipped part, that is it will be blank with tri-stated
I/Os.


Here is the link

http://answers.altera.com/altera/resultDisplay.do?page=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.altera.com%2Fsupport%2Fkdb%2F2003%2F12%2Frd12082003_9642.html&result=0&responseid45%b50f58f81c41c5%3A576e70%3A10338fea6ab%3A6f47&groupid=1&contextid51%79%3A1971.2113%2C1625.1759%2C1827.1970&clusterName=DefaultCluster&doctype10%00&excerpt=Program+a+MAX+7000S+with+that+.pof+and+it+will+behave+the+same+as+the+new+factory+shipped +
art%2C+that+is+it+will+be+blank+with+tri-stated+I%2FOs.#Goto1971

http://answers.altera.com/altera/resultDisplay.do?page=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.altera.com%2Fsupport%2Fkdb%2F2004%2F09%2Frd09092004_5239.html&result=3&responseid45%b50f58f81c41c5%3A576e70%3A10338fea6ab%3A6f4d&groupid=1&contextid55%14%3A1785.1980%2C1044.1152&clusterName=DefaultCluster&doctype10%00&excerpt=MAX+7000AE%2C+MAX+3000A%2C+and+MAX+7000B+devices+differ+from+MAX+7000S+-+if+the+part+is+blank+or+erase
+it+will+automatically+tri-stated+the+all+the+I%2FO+pins+and+does+not+need+tri-state+bit+settings.#Goto1785

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Re: State of MAX7000S I/O pins before programming
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[snip: text of articles]

Thanks for the lead.

For the benefit of others, those expired links are:
http://www.altera.com/support/kdb/2004/09/rd09092004_5239.html
http://www.altera.com/support/kdb/2003/12/rd12082003_9642.html

Perhaps the most useful link for me, since I don't have the old
MAX+PLUS II software, and can't use "Examine" to create a POF file from
a fresh factory-shipped device, is this link which explains how to
blank a MAX7000S device using the JAM player:

http://www.altera.com/support/kdb/1999/09/rd09131999_640.html


Re: State of MAX7000S I/O pins before programming

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from

After re-eading the above, I'm not sure if the JAM player "erase"
method is an "erase" or a "blank" as defined in the other articles i.e.
does it tri-state the I/O pins?


Re: State of MAX7000S I/O pins before programming

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i.e.

OK, having gone round the loop one last time (this blank/erased
business is very confusing!) I believe that reading a blank POF is
(quote) "The only way to get the I/O pins to tri-state again" - so I'm
hosed.


Re: State of MAX7000S I/O pins before programming
I'm not sure whether you can get support from altera, if possible,
they probably will give you the .pof file or the way to examine .pof
file using Quartus II.

Btw, try to use jam player to examine the device. I'm sure it is
supported.

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