Have you ever met Tux? :)
-- % Randy Yates % "Maybe one day I'll feel her cold embrace, %% Fuquay-Varina, NC % and kiss her interface, %%% 919-577-9882 % til then, I'll leave her alone." %%%% % 'Yours Truly, 2095', *Time*, ELO
I prefer Beastie myself. Shackleton had the right idea about penguins. ;-)
Seriously though the situation on Unix platforms is getting worse by the minute. 10-15 years the toolkit wars were over and Motif was the winner. Most apps were shifting to Motif and CDE was coming to further standardise the UI.
However, as soon as Linux started to gain traction things started to deteriorate again, quite probably becasue Motif wasn't free. Now you need any number of different toolkits to cover a broad range of apps and things like Gnome and KDE are far more substantial bits of code than anything that went before. The net result is that each app has a completely different appearance, works in a different way, and the whole assembly is one great waste of memory and processor time.
-- Andrew Smallshaw andrews@sdf.lonestar.org
Who considers anything but the "latest and greatest" to be outdated? This group is supposedly intelligent and familiar enough with computing to make decisions about "upgrading". If newer products don't offer anything in valued improvements, ignore them.
... snip ...
Seriously consider Linux, especially Ubuntu. You do have a choice. A better choice.
--
[mail]: Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
[page]:
Try the download section.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
You do. I have successfully installed Fedora 8 on an HP Pavillion DV9620US.
However one thing to be careful of in running linux on laptops is Broadcom's stubborn refusal to open up their wireless card specifications so that open source drivers can be developed. Translated: don't buy a laptop with a Broadcom wireless card (or chipset) if you want to run linux on it. Atheros I've heard is very good and supported by madwifi.org.
But, even though Broadcom is stubborn, I have still been successful at getting the card to work on my home network. Unfortunately the reverse engineered drivers (b43-fwcutter...) do not seem to support the Master modes used in public hotspots.
-- % Randy Yates % "The dreamer, the unwoken fool - %% Fuquay-Varina, NC % in dreams, no pain will kiss the brow..." %%% 919-577-9882 % %%%% % 'Eldorado Overture', *Eldorado*, ELO http://www.digitalsignallabs.com
Here is what I found on that madwifi.org: " The About/HAL: Hardware Abstraction Layer. All access to the hardware has to go thru this closed source component which is maintained by Atheros. Unfortunately there is no documentation for it except the public interfaces in hal/ah.h."
I can understand they want to have something working with linux, but I definitely lose all sympathy when those of the "open source" community begin to get involved in the wifi secrecy scenario. It is not just hypocrytic, it is of course fuelling the monopoly over wifi related software. I would much rather have something with closed sources but documented rather than open source here and there and closed key parts. If such cooperation to blackmail companies (like MS and those making wifi parts usable only for MS) is OK with linux and GNU then they should certainly shut up with their claim about openness.
Didi
------------------------------------------------------ Dimiter Popoff Transgalactic Instruments
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Original message:
I knew someone would mention Linux. Linux is still an alien platform to me and there is any amount of software that is not supported under it... or I should say that there is any amount of software that is only supported on specific versions of Linux. If I run Fedora 8, maybe vendor X gives me support and vendor Y doesn't. I run Redhat and vendor X gives me support and vendor Z doesn't... etc, etc, etc.
The reason that I still run windows at all is because for me, it is the only option. Currently Win2000 is the best that runs the minimum required set of software. If I want a laptop, my only choice currently is to buy a machine running XP which I can do for the next few weeks. After that there will be no choice on a new machine except for Vista. With a number of vendors not supporting that still, I will not have the option of buying a new laptop with an installed OS that runs the software I need.
Rick
I have been able to operate just fine for 3 years without most of the Microsoft-specific software. Most notably, OpenOffice replaces Microsoft Office. And for those occasions that I do need a MS-based OS, such as once a year to run TaxCut, or when I need to run TI Code Composer Studio, I use Win2000 running in a virtual machine under a linux host. I previously used VMWare and currently use VirtualBox for this.
What software do you use that demands a MS OS?
-- % Randy Yates % "She has an IQ of 1001, she has a jumpsuit %% Fuquay-Varina, NC % on, and she's also a telephone." %%% 919-577-9882 % %%%% % 'Yours Truly, 2095', *Time*, ELO http://www.digitalsignallabs.com
Various CAD/CAE tools. I am sure that it is possible to run most of them under WINE or something similar, but they are not supported that way. I am very happy with Win2000 and I see no need to switch to a
*nix flavor. Even if I buy the *nix version of the various tools, they only support the version of *nix that they indicate. The CAE tools are pretty flaky compared to general software and I don't need the headache of trying to get support while running under an unsupported OS.My only problem is buying a laptop. You can't build one yourself and the vendors don't offer Win2K anymore. Next month even Dell says they will no longer offer XP. This is a double whammy because most of the tools are not supported under Vista yet AFAIK.
Only if I want to run programs without support. Most CAD/CAE tools are unsupported under *nix or only supported on a single flavor and version. The vendors don't even agree on the flavor and version supported.
But there is also the issue of knowledge. I have *no* experience with
*nix... well, no good experience. Some years ago I bought a $200 Walmart machine which came with Lindows, a version of Linux. It had a number of apps which were flaky and I didn't see much utility to it. I couldn't figure out how to do a lot of things and I ended up installing Win2000 over it. The company was also pretty poor about meeting the license requirements. I thought they had to make the sources available in the same manner that they distributed the binary. When I first asked them about it they feigned ignorance. After nagging they shipped me a hand copied CD. When I received an update there were no sources. This time I was told that they were available on the web site. Yes, they were there, but as individual files which had to be downloaded one at a time.I have just never had a positive experience with linux. I don't know how much time it would take, but I can't see spending the investment to convert and I seldom have the time to investigate. There is also the research I would have to do to figure out *which* version of Linux I would want. How can Linux be standard if there are so many versions and each software vendor only supports a few?
So what exactly is better about Linux?
I don't doubt that - I don't think Orcad runs on any linux platform.
That was probably a bad way to experience linux. These days, for evaluation, you can install it (whatever flavor) in a virtual machine and play with it that way. The VM takes a piece of your hard drive (10G would be plenty), but in today's world that's largely negligible.
Well, those are all valid reasons to stick with Windows. But that's not what you said; you said you didn't have an option. The truth is, you do have an option, but it doesn't seem very appealing to you.
Also note that there are a set of open-source EDA tools available called gEDA - check then out.
a. You can watch whatever videos or audios you want whenever and make all the copies you'd ever want.
b. No "phoning home" to tell the Corp. what your spending habits, eating habits, sex habits, surfing habits, etc. are.
c. No checking to see if this is a valid installation.
a. It is based on the X11 windows system, which means that you can run any application (X client) anywhere in the world from your desktop.
b. It comes with ssh and ssh server out-of-the-box. That means that you can access (securely) any file on your system from any point on the internet.
c. It's easy to install Apache (a web server), postgresql (a database server), subversion (version control software), and a myriad of other things and access these servers from anywhere there's an internet connection.
-- % Randy Yates % "So now it's getting late, %% Fuquay-Varina, NC % and those who hesitate %%% 919-577-9882 % got no one..." %%%% % 'Waterfall', *Face The Music*, ELO http://www.digitalsignallabs.com
I second your opinion regarding Linux. It is a toy of students and enthusiasts who are enjoying the process of configuring the computer instead of getting the actual job done hard and fast.
BTW, why do you prefer Win2k rather then XP?
Vladimir Vassilevsky DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultant
... snip ...
I think you will find that switching from Winders is much easier now. Also, you have much less disturbance of your existing system to simply try it out. If you get the free CD from Ubuntu.com you will find you can install a working system without using your hard disk at all (some penalties, obviously), or a dual booting system, with no penalties except gobbling some disk space, or a complete replacement. Just fill out the order and wait three or so weeks for a CD delivery.
The unixy variations are largely in the GUI programs. The old fashioned easy linkage of CLI programs remains available, largely unchanged. Ubuntu 8.04 is a long term maintenance version (3 years). I am still running the previouss long term version (6.06).
Expect to invest one to two hours. Also see alt.os.linux.ubuntu.
--
[mail]: Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
[page]:
Try the download section.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
rickman wrote: (snip)
That is what wget is good for.
I like scientific linux, see
The OP has not so much on opinion about Linux as wel as bad experiences, and is willing to learn.
The only hindrance to getting my job done on Linux is when I meet deliberately created incompatibilities and deviations from standards originating from you know who.
Haven't we met? (I'm the guy of the ESO optical delay line in Paranal Chile, meeting the requirements of 14 nanometer deviation RMS.)
--
-- Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS Economic growth -- like all pyramid schemes -- ultimately falters. albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst
Officially Dutch tax forms runs only under certain brands of linux, not my brand. Guess what? The windows software is reasonably cross- platform (withing windows that is). Bottom line, the *windows* version of the tax forms installed and run under wine on my Ubuntu 64 bit 7.03. (12 Megabyte to fill in 12 zero's in a a form, but anyway). Including sending the completed form over a safe channel.
My guess: Windows package intended for XP run better on Ubuntu/wine than one Windows Vista. At least you can check it out at no cost.
--
-- Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS Economic growth -- like all pyramid schemes -- ultimately falters. albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst
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