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Re: Periodically delayed clock
On Wednesday, November 28, 2018 at 3:21:36 PM UTC-5, lasselangwad...@gmail.
com wrote:
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gh

I understand.  I'll try to work with that way of thinking.

If anyone's interested, here's my thinking on this type of circuit.  I thin
k a construction like this would make more sense in hardware definition sou
rce code:

    // Declared in global space
    BitObj goEnable;
    goEnable.D_in = BUSY;
    goEnable.set  = @risingedge CLK;

    // You can then reference this in your code anywhere:
    Q_out         = goEnable.out;

The BitObj object would be a known class/construct that has two inputs, one
 output (logically), and it can then be logically wielded in that way.  It  
can be setup as a static object somewhere in global space (a singleton), an
d is then defined to be wired up as indicated with the Q_out reference.

In addition, other circuits later on could reference it simply by saying:

    my_other_signal = goEnable.out;

And I would use that existing C/C++ knowledge base for how to write these t
hings.  They are more along the things I would write into Logician.  We are
, after all, creating an fully artificially constructed environment per our
 definition.  It's fully logically constructed from the ground up given the
 constraints of the environment we're in (limitations / requirements of our
 target device if on an FPGA, or in our process technology for manufacturin
g real silicon-based ICs).

The compiler should be able to work out how it should all be physically wir
ed up, and provide information / metrics about where there are inefficienci
es, hot spots, etc.

I desire to work at that level of logic, and to have a more common set of t
ools to be able to translate it from the ideal virtual world of design into
 the physical needs of the target device.  I want the compiler / toolset to
 do that for me, and I desire to work with a more common / centralized know
ledge base to other disciplines (such as C/C++ coding styles).  The use of  
"then" and "end if;" for example ... replace them with { and }.

Just my thinking on this.  It's one of the reasons I've had difficulty lear
ning existing tools.  I can envision another way to do it, and it frustrate
s me that it isn't already written that way because it seems more logical.

Same thing with basic gates.  I have renamed them to things that make sense
 to me:

    Flip  -- Logical NOT  for Signal or Data (1 yields 0, 0 yields 1)
    Any1  -- Logical OR   for Signal or Data (1 on any input 1)
    All1  -- Logical AND  for Signal or Data (1 on all input 1)
    Any0  -- Logical NAND for Signal or Data (1 on any input 0)
    All0  -- Logical NOR  for Signal or Data (1 on all input 0)
    Diff  -- Logical XNOR for Signal or Data (1 on inputs are different)
    Same  -- Logical XOR  for Signal or Data (1 on inputs are same)

I think a student learning those terms would pick them up in 11 seconds, co
mpared to trying to remember what the traditional terms mean, etc.

I have lots of ideas like this and I think if people would give me a chance
 I could positively impact this area of hardware prototyping and design.

--  
Rick C. Hodgin

Re: Periodically delayed clock
On Wednesday, November 28, 2018 at 3:39:20 PM UTC-5, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
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Oops.  These two should be reversed:

    Any0  -- Logical NOR  for Signal or Data (1 on any input 0)
    All0  -- Logical NAND for Signal or Data (1 on all input 0)

--  
Rick C. Hodgin

Re: Periodically delayed clock
On Wednesday, November 28, 2018 at 3:42:39 PM UTC-5, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
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Nope.  I was correct in my first posting.  It should be:

    Any0  -- Logical NAND for Signal or Data (1 on any input 0)
    All0  -- Logical NOR  for Signal or Data (1 on all input 0)

Truth table:

      NAND /            NOR /
      Any 0             All 0

    a  b  |  o        a  b  |  o
    ----------        ----------
    0  0  |  1        0  0  |  1
    0  1  |  1        0  1  |  0
    1  0  |  1        1  0  |  0
    1  1  |  0        1  1  |  0

--  
Rick C. Hodgin

Re: Periodically delayed clock
On Thursday, November 29, 2018 at 11:43:30 AM UTC-5, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
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Most of us learn to walk before we learn to run.  Give that a try.  :)  

Do you have a simple question using terminology we all share and understand?  

  Rick C.  

  Tesla referral code +-+ https://ts.la/richard11209

Re: Periodically delayed clock
On Thursday, November 29, 2018 at 12:26:14 PM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.co
m wrote:
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You think you're funny, Rick C.  You are not.

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nd?  

I did that work in 2015.  I recounted it from what I had saved at that time
 in my git repository, and in my reviewing it on-the-spot after posting her
e I concluded incorrectly that it was wrong from that timeframe.  As it tur
ns out, the way it was back then was correct, and I had thought things thro
ugh properly.

I'm so tired of people telling me that I have to do things the way everyone
 else does in order to be successful.  The truth is you DO NOT if you're go
od enough, if you have enough vision and follow-through.  Things that are f
undamental in nature's design rise up and speak for themselves in any proje
ct.  There are a host of people moving forward all the time who come up wit
h new ways of doing old things better than the old ways.

I've looked at the requirements of learning the tools that exist and I see  
variances and issues in the way things are coded, things that could be done
 away with, merged, rethought, refactored, improved upon, etc., and that's  
what I plan to do with Logician, to bring in a more common base of natural  
intuitive understanding from the way people think, and the way things are a
nd exist fundamentally, without having to learn the mechanisms established  
in the industry previously where they don't make sense.  Some of it is trul
y archaic and could use a fresh perspective.

Without people willing to help me in THAT effort of looking at fundamentals
 and rebuilding from the ground up for the future, I'll go it alone with sa
dness, and the lot of you can benefit from the product I ultimately produce
 if you so desire.  If not, no worries.  No harm, no foul.

I will NEVER EVER EVER say something negative to anyone in such a way as to
 smash or diminish their hopes, dreams, or goals.  Any goals which are trul
y off-the-charts ludicrous will have that fact revealed on the journey, and
 for some people (possibly myself included), that's the ONLY way they'll EV
ER learn.  But for the rest, beating someone down like that is horrific.

To rise up with a negative voice and squelch someone in their heartfelt, en
thusiastic, honest, reaching-out, sincere efforts ... it's akin to the wors
t kind of criminal behavior one person can do to another.  It damages thing
s on the inside which can never be undamaged.  It cuts and produces scars t
hat remain for life, impacting countless other areas of their life for the  
rest of their life.

May God's light shine upon each of our souls the light of truth and hope, a
nd so brightly that all darkness is ended within each of us.

--  
Rick C. Hodgin

Re: Periodically delayed clock
On 29/11/2018 18:52, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
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You have a very strange way of thanking people who give you sound  
advice.  No one has suggested you don't learn to run - merely that you  
learn to walk first.  No one has suggested that you should not dream, or  
reach for the stars - merely that jumping off a cliff is not a good way  
to learn to fly.

Lashing out at people who try to help, and insulting them in such  
hyperbolic terms is not going to make your projects progress any faster.  
  It is just going to mean fewer people to help you on your way.

And for someone who says they will "NEVER EVER EVER say something  
negative to anyone", you really do write impressively strongly worded  
and highly negative posts sometimes.  (And this one is not nearly as bad  
as some of the ones you have directed at me.)

Re: Periodically delayed clock
On Thursday, November 29, 2018 at 12:52:16 PM UTC-5, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
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com wrote:
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Not trying to be rude, I'm serious.  You have gaping holes in your knowledg
e of digital logic design.  If you don't know the significance of clock ena
bles and are just learning the faculties of logic gates there is no point r
eally in trying to teach you how to design a CPU.  


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tand?  
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me in my git repository, and in my reviewing it on-the-spot after posting h
ere I concluded incorrectly that it was wrong from that timeframe.  As it t
urns out, the way it was back then was correct, and I had thought things th
rough properly.

I don't know what you are referring to here... at all.  "it" has no meaning
 to me unless you explain "it".  


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ne else does in order to be successful.  The truth is you DO NOT if you're  
good enough, if you have enough vision and follow-through.  Things that are
 fundamental in nature's design rise up and speak for themselves in any pro
ject.  There are a host of people moving forward all the time who come up w
ith new ways of doing old things better than the old ways.

You can do things any way you want.  No one is telling you to do anything i
n a specific way.  We don't understand what you are talking about because y
ou can't be bothered to learn the common terminology or any of the basic co
ncepts.  If you want to learn it all on your own, inventing all the concept
s yourself and giving everything a name you invented, then why are you here
 asking questions?  


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e variances and issues in the way things are coded, things that could be do
ne away with, merged, rethought, refactored, improved upon, etc., and that'
s what I plan to do with Logician, to bring in a more common base of natura
l intuitive understanding from the way people think, and the way things are
 and exist fundamentally, without having to learn the mechanisms establishe
d in the industry previously where they don't make sense.  Some of it is tr
uly archaic and could use a fresh perspective.
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ls and rebuilding from the ground up for the future, I'll go it alone with  
sadness, and the lot of you can benefit from the product I ultimately produ
ce if you so desire.  If not, no worries.  No harm, no foul.

No, I have no interest in reinventing things that aren't broken.  I have wo
rk to do and know how to get my work done using the tools available.  If yo
u want to design your own tools, obviously getting work done is secondary.  
 Regardless that isn't how you started this thread.  You started by explain
ing what you were trying to do and how you were trying to do it and asked,  
"Is there an easier / different way to do this?"  All we have done is to tr
y to explain why using clock enables is an easier way to do what you were d
oing.  


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to smash or diminish their hopes, dreams, or goals.  Any goals which are tr
uly off-the-charts ludicrous will have that fact revealed on the journey, a
nd for some people (possibly myself included), that's the ONLY way they'll  
EVER learn.  But for the rest, beating someone down like that is horrific.
Quoted text here. Click to load it
enthusiastic, honest, reaching-out, sincere efforts ... it's akin to the wo
rst kind of criminal behavior one person can do to another.  It damages thi
ngs on the inside which can never be undamaged.  It cuts and produces scars
 that remain for life, impacting countless other areas of their life for th
e rest of their life.

No one here has intentionally tried to be negative or to diminish your hope
s.  What we have tried to do explain how you are on a long, painful road an
d that we can help you find an easier way if you will listen.  If you want  
to follow the rough road, that's your choice.  I'm not making any judgement
s at all about your destination.  That's all up to you.  

If you want to discuss digital logic design, please ask questions.  I'm not
 interested in discussing how people are diminishing your hopes or anything
 at all about god.  This group is not about that.  Sorry if you were hurt b
y anything I wrote.  

  Rick C.  

  Tesla referral code +++ https://ts.la/richard11209

Re: Periodically delayed clock
torsdag den 29. november 2018 kl. 18.52.16 UTC+1 skrev Rick C. Hodgin:
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com wrote:
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tand?  
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me in my git repository, and in my reviewing it on-the-spot after posting h
ere I concluded incorrectly that it was wrong from that timeframe.  As it t
urns out, the way it was back then was correct, and I had thought things th
rough properly.
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ne else does in order to be successful.  The truth is you DO NOT if you're  
good enough, if you have enough vision and follow-through.  Things that are
 fundamental in nature's design rise up and speak for themselves in any pro
ject.  There are a host of people moving forward all the time who come up w
ith new ways of doing old things better than the old ways.
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e variances and issues in the way things are coded, things that could be do
ne away with, merged, rethought, refactored, improved upon, etc., and that'
s what I plan to do with Logician, to bring in a more common base of natura
l intuitive understanding from the way people think, and the way things are
 and exist fundamentally, without having to learn the mechanisms establishe
d in the industry previously where they don't make sense.  Some of it is tr
uly archaic and could use a fresh perspective.
Quoted text here. Click to load it
ls and rebuilding from the ground up for the future, I'll go it alone with  
sadness, and the lot of you can benefit from the product I ultimately produ
ce if you so desire.  If not, no worries.  No harm, no foul.
Quoted text here. Click to load it
to smash or diminish their hopes, dreams, or goals.  Any goals which are tr
uly off-the-charts ludicrous will have that fact revealed on the journey, a
nd for some people (possibly myself included), that's the ONLY way they'll  
EVER learn.  But for the rest, beating someone down like that is horrific.
Quoted text here. Click to load it
enthusiastic, honest, reaching-out, sincere efforts ... it's akin to the wo
rst kind of criminal behavior one person can do to another.  It damages thi
ngs on the inside which can never be undamaged.  It cuts and produces scars
 that remain for life, impacting countless other areas of their life for th
e rest of their life.
Quoted text here. Click to load it
 and so brightly that all darkness is ended within each of us.
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I see why you "encounter resistance when I approach others with my thinking
"





Re: Periodically delayed clock
On Thursday, November 29, 2018 at 7:02:04 PM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.c
om wrote:
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l.com wrote:
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)  
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rstand?  
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time in my git repository, and in my reviewing it on-the-spot after posting
 here I concluded incorrectly that it was wrong from that timeframe.  As it
 turns out, the way it was back then was correct, and I had thought things  
through properly.
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yone else does in order to be successful.  The truth is you DO NOT if you'r
e good enough, if you have enough vision and follow-through.  Things that a
re fundamental in nature's design rise up and speak for themselves in any p
roject.  There are a host of people moving forward all the time who come up
 with new ways of doing old things better than the old ways.
Quoted text here. Click to load it
see variances and issues in the way things are coded, things that could be  
done away with, merged, rethought, refactored, improved upon, etc., and tha
t's what I plan to do with Logician, to bring in a more common base of natu
ral intuitive understanding from the way people think, and the way things a
re and exist fundamentally, without having to learn the mechanisms establis
hed in the industry previously where they don't make sense.  Some of it is  
truly archaic and could use a fresh perspective.
Quoted text here. Click to load it
tals and rebuilding from the ground up for the future, I'll go it alone wit
h sadness, and the lot of you can benefit from the product I ultimately pro
duce if you so desire.  If not, no worries.  No harm, no foul.
Quoted text here. Click to load it
s to smash or diminish their hopes, dreams, or goals.  Any goals which are  
truly off-the-charts ludicrous will have that fact revealed on the journey,
 and for some people (possibly myself included), that's the ONLY way they'l
l EVER learn.  But for the rest, beating someone down like that is horrific
.
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, enthusiastic, honest, reaching-out, sincere efforts ... it's akin to the  
worst kind of criminal behavior one person can do to another.  It damages t
hings on the inside which can never be undamaged.  It cuts and produces sca
rs that remain for life, impacting countless other areas of their life for  
the rest of their life.
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e, and so brightly that all darkness is ended within each of us.
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ng"

I'm sorry this thread ended this way.  I was hoping to help him make some p
rogress on his design and his understanding of how to design logic.  But I  
can't say I am surprised.  He seems to have difficulties in understanding h
ow others think in general.  So it shouldn't be a surprise that he had trou
ble understanding the concepts we tried to explain to him.  I guess that is
 also why he hasn't learned very much from all the many sources available o
n the web and in books.  

I think that is the main reason why this group is relatively dead now.  Mos
t people have found other, very easy ways to learn digital logic design.  R
ich seems intent on literally reinventing the wheel in terms of digital log
ic design.  Nothing he finds is good enough because it isn't the way he has
 already started thinking without even trying to understand how others do i
t.  

  Rick C.  

  Tesla referral code ---- https://ts.la/richard11209

Re: Periodically delayed clock
I appreciate the offer of help, Rick C.

--  
Rick C. Hodgin

Re: Periodically delayed clock
On 02/12/2018 01:18, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

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Agreed.  I have tried many times to help Rick (mostly in programming  
groups, rather than this one).  Sometimes it seems he learns a bit from  
what I write, but sooner or later it ends with me or others telling him  
he needs to learn more, or reduce the scope of his ambition, or re-think  
the direction he is heading, and then we who help are declared to be  
evil, negative influences, possessed by the devil (yes, apparently I am  
possessed), or - as now - the worst sort of criminal.


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Most Usenet groups are relatively dead (at least, most technical and  
useful ones).  People have other ways to ask questions and share  
knowledge.  I can't comprehend why people ("the youth of today") seem to  
prefer web-based forums, but they do.

Still, even a quite group like this gets interesting discussions  
sometimes, although I am mostly a lurker here as I haven't done much  
programmable logic design for a long time.


Re: Periodically delayed clock
On 12/2/18 7:13 AM, David Brown wrote:
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I see Rick a bit different. He has taken on an enormous mission,
prompted by a blind faith that this is his calling and that by some
supernatural power he will be able to succeed.

He has learned enough about a lot of things, 'to be dangerous', but not
enough to really have an expertise of the level really needed to succeed
at his mission.

He seems to refuse to learn from the mistakes of others, and doesn't
look at history, perhaps due to his feeling of calling, and as such he
is doomed to repeat most of the mistakes of the past, which will mean it
will take him a long time to get to where he wants to get to. He somehow
thinks that he will get the insight to bypass the issues that others had
in those attempts, and somehow overlooked the answer.

He also has the typical fanatical mindset that anyone trying to change
his mind about anything remotely based on what he has taken of faith,
must be from an evil source, since he can't be wrong.

Re: Periodically delayed clock
On Sunday, December 2, 2018 at 8:30:05 AM UTC-5, Richard Damon wrote:
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ake
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fficulties

 a
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much
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ng

 from
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k

This is not my position.

I am seeking to build a foundation that is based on an explicit
offering unto the Lord, prayed over, pursued toward Him, and not
just to get it done.  It is the best of what He first gave me given
back to Him.

I receive offered help when it comes from a commensurate offering,
but other help comes from other foundations and I cannot receive and
integrate that help into my project because it's not an offering of
legitimate giving with a desire to help, it's more like, "This is
how you do it [moron]," and such attitudes are of the enemy spirit.

There really is a 1 00% division in this world between the saved
and unsaved.  The goals I pursue are my best offering unto the Lord,
guven in explicit holiness for Him, weak and failing as they are,
they are still my best.

When others seek to serve the Lord, for the Lord, with their skills,
then that help will be integrated because it will integrate in the
way of love and offering and peace, and not from some other source.

You can listen to my philosophy in this video I recorded back in
2012.  It begins about 35 minutes into the video, and was a total
surprise to me when I recorded it.  Unplanned, it's summed up my whole
thinking nicely:

    http://www.visual-freepro.org/videos/2012_12_08__01_vvmmc__and_vfrps_re
lationship_to_christianity.ogv

You may understand if you listen.

I keep hoping and praying others will come on board and help.  We are
stronger together than apart, but it must be for the Lord and not for
other reasons.

--  
Rick C. Hodgin

Re: Periodically delayed clock
On Sunday, December 2, 2018 at 8:47:28 AM UTC-5, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
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This reminds me of the joke about the man on the roof of his flooded home.  
 A person in a rowboat offers help and the man replies, "No thanks, I'm pra
ying to God and he is going to save me. I have faith."  A helicopter hovers
 overhead and offers help and the man replies, "No thanks, I'm praying to G
od and he is going to save me. I have faith."  A motorboat comes by offerin
g help and the man replies, "No thanks, I'm praying to God and he is going  
to save me. I have faith."  Soon the water rises above the roof and the man
 drowns.  

On reaching heaven the man asks the lord why he wasn't saved.  The lord rep
lied, "I sent you a rowboat and a motorboat and a helicopter, what more did
 you expect?"

I would suggest you stop turning away motorboats, Richard.  

  Rick C.  

  Tesla referral code ---+ https://ts.la/richard11209

Re: Periodically delayed clock
On 02/12/2018 14:47, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
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It is quite clear that this is your position.  But like several aspects  
of what you do and write, I don't think you are fully aware of it.  (And  
as always, this is an independent observation, not an insult.)  You are  
convinced that your positions in many respects are "divinely inspired"  
in some way.  Now, I am not going to say that this is not the case -  
what I believe here does not matter.  However, how you /interpret/ your  
divine inspiration, and what you do with it, is a purely human matter -  
it is up to /you/.

Thus when many people tell you that you are wrong about something, it is  
entirely possible that you /are/ wrong, despite divine inspiration.  The  
people driving the motorboats and helicopters may not believe in the  
same god you do - that does not mean they are not there to help.  And  
who are you to say that folks like Rick and I are not giving you the  
guidance you asked god for?

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Again, it seems clear that you believe this - but that is not close to  
the image you project.  You give the image of astounding arrogance and  
pride - that you believe you alone have been chosen to re-create all  
programming, software, hardware, and even the tools used to make them,  
and that you alone are good enough for the job because no one else  
measures up to your standards of purity.

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That does not apply to any of the help you have been given here, in this  
thread.  Certainly there are people in groups that you have annoyed so  
consistently that they directly insult you - and certainly there are  
some people who are just rude anyway.

People do sometimes tell you your ideas are moronic (or words to that  
effect).  That is not the same thing as saying /you/ are a moron.  I  
don't think you are a moron, but I /do/ think some of the things you say  
or plan are truly stupid.

I assume that when you tell people they are the worst sort of criminals,  
or possessed by daemons, or simply evil or negative people, you are  
doing it because you think it might help them.  And yet if someone else  
says something as mild as "this is probably not the best way to reach  
your goals" or "you need to go back and learn some basics", they are  
evil and negative and fighting against you.

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Most other people do not agree with you about your beliefs.  That does  
not mean they are working against you, or against your god.  As far as  
they are concerned, your god does not exist - they don't work against  
him any more than they work against the Martians.  The world - and  
people - are not as black-or-white as you think.

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Re: Periodically delayed clock
On Sunday, 2 December 2018 19:46:41 UTC+1, David Brown  wrote:

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And, as far as they are concerned, the US is the greatest nation in the
Universe, bringing democracy and progress to us all.

Can you see the pattern there?

Aka, congratulations for your anti-(anti-)dogmatism...

*Plonk*

Julio

Re: Periodically delayed clock
On 02/12/2018 20:07, Julio Di Egidio wrote:
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If you are serious about your plonk, you won't be reading this - but I  
know some people use "plonk" as a threat rather actually carrying it out.

I am completely at a loss to figure out what you mean here.  I said that  
most people do not agree with Rick's beliefs - that is simple fact.  And  
I said this does not mean they are against him or his god - that is also  
simple fact, but it is one that causes Rick a good deal of trouble.

How you see that as being related to American politics or nationalism is  
beyond my comprehension.  Would it help if I pointed out that I am not  
American, nor do I live there or have anything to do with that country?


Re: Periodically delayed clock
onsdag den 28. november 2018 kl. 21.39.20 UTC+1 skrev Rick C. Hodgin:
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l.com wrote:
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high
ink a construction like this would make more sense in hardware definition s
ource code:
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D_in is you data input, BUSY should be a enable signal telling it to ignore
  
the clock edges  

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ne output (logically), and it can then be logically wielded in that way.  I
t can be setup as a static object somewhere in global space (a singleton),  
and is then defined to be wired up as indicated with the Q_out reference.
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 things.  They are more along the things I would write into Logician.  We a
re, after all, creating an fully artificially constructed environment per o
ur definition.  It's fully logically constructed from the ground up given t
he constraints of the environment we're in (limitations / requirements of o
ur target device if on an FPGA, or in our process technology for manufactur
ing real silicon-based ICs).
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ired up, and provide information / metrics about where there are inefficien
cies, hot spots, etc.
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 tools to be able to translate it from the ideal virtual world of design in
to the physical needs of the target device.  I want the compiler / toolset  
to do that for me, and I desire to work with a more common / centralized kn
owledge base to other disciplines (such as C/C++ coding styles).  The use o
f "then" and "end if;" for example ... replace them with { and }.
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arning existing tools.  I can envision another way to do it, and it frustra
tes me that it isn't already written that way because it seems more logical
.
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se to me:
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compared to trying to remember what the traditional terms mean, etc.
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ce I could positively impact this area of hardware prototyping and design.
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you are trying to reinvent the wheel by refining "circular ring with spokes
  
from rim to hub" to "round thing with some sticks in the middle" without fu
lly understanding how a wheel works





Re: Periodically delayed clock
On Wednesday, November 28, 2018 at 4:06:59 PM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:
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I think BUSY should be the data input, and clock should be the enable, because you want a full clock cycle resolution on the delay, and if BUSY is asserted at the start of a cycle, it should delay the entire cycle.

--  
Rick C. Hodgin

Re: Periodically delayed clock
On Wednesday, November 28, 2018 at 4:58:31 PM UTC-5, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
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Ok, I am throwing in the towel.  You need to read some basic logic design text books.  You have no understanding at all of how this stuff works and you don't seem to be interested in learning from those who do.  

  Rick C.  

  Tesla referral code +-- https://ts.la/richard11209

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