Open source access to generate netlists into Altera tools? Others?

Ok, to be completely fair now that Xilinx clearly doesn't allow open source tools to generate net lists for the features of current Xilinx devices (other than old limited EDIF and XNF interfaces), just what access does open source have to generate usable netlists for Altera products?

What fpga companies are open to open source tools augmenting their vendor supplied tools to support their products?

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fpga_toys
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schrieb im Newsbeitrag news: snipped-for-privacy@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

Dear mr John Lawrence Bass

QUIP is not enough for you?

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Antti

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Antti Lukats

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There are clearly questions about the Altera license too.

"2. License to the Licensed Program: By this Agreement, ALTERA grants to you a non-exclusive license to use the Licensed Program (and any updates thereof for which you have paid a subscription fee) on the terms and conditions outlined in this Agreement. Any features for which you have not paid a subscription fee or any other unenabled features of the Licensed Program (unless ALTERA provides a software protection enabling key or code for such unenabled features) are unlicensed and you agree not to use or access such features. Certain licenses to the Licensed Program are time limited, to the extent designated by ALTERA and as may be set forth in the feature line license key that is issued, and will automatically time-out at the end of the designated period. The source code of the Software, and the algorithms, concepts, techniques, methods and processes embodied therein, constitute trade secrets and confidential and proprietary information of ALTERA and its licensors, and LICENSEE shall not access or use such trade secrets and information in any manner, except to the extent expressly permitted herein. ALTERA and its licensors retain all title, copyright, patent and other proprietary rights therein. LICENSEE agrees not to remove or obscure any copyright, trademark or patents notices found in or on any user documentation or the Software."

Which follows the Xilinx strategy of claiming "trade secrets and confidential and proprietary information of ALTERA". That agreement continues with:

"Pursuant to this Agreement, you may: (a) use the Licensed Program on a single computer (or, if you have purchased a floating node license, the number of concurrent users for which you have obtained licenses from ALTERA may use the Licensed Program on networked workstations); (b) use the Licensed Program for the sole purpose of programming logic devices manufactured by ALTERA and sold by ALTERA or its authorized distributors, [...] Your end customers may use ALTERA programmable logic devices that have been programmed with the Licensed Program."

To limit your use exclusively to those activities which program Altera devices. The "by ALTERA or its authorized distributors" restrictions are very interesting, as it suggests that if you have purchased a gray market part, you are not allowed to use these tools to program it. Later in the same section:

"YOU MAY NOT USE, COPY, MODIFY, DISTRIBUTE OR TRANSFER THE SOFTWARE OR ANY COPY, OR MERGED OR COMBINED PORTION THEREOF, IN WHOLE OR IN PART, EXCEPT AS EXPRESSLY PROVIDED FOR IN THIS AGREEMENT. IF YOU TRANSFER POSSESSION OF ANY COPY, OR MERGED OR COMBINED PORTION OF THE SOFTWARE, TO ANOTHER PARTY EXCEPT AS EXPRESSLY PROVIDED HEREIN, YOUR LICENSE IS AUTOMATICALLY TERMINATED. YOU MAY NOT DECOMPILE, DISASSEMBLE OR OTHERWISE ATTEMPT TO ACCESS THE SOURCE CODE OF THE SOFTWARE; PROVIDED, HOWEVER, THAT IF YOU ARE LOCATED IN A MEMBER NATION OF THE EUROPEAN COMMUNITY OR OTHER JURISDICTION THAT PERMITS LIMITED REVERSE ENGINEERING, YOU MAY PERFORM LIMITED REVERSE ENGINEERING, BUT ONLY AFTER GIVING NOTICE TO ALTERA AND ONLY TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY THE EC SOFTWARE DIRECTIVE OR OTHER APPLICABLE LAW."

Which means that anyone outside the EU can not use the claimed proprietary rights outside this agreement, and those in the EU must provide advance notice.

Overall the tone of the Altera agreement is the same EULA NDA with the typical flair of a corporate legal license - claim everything, yield little. This is troubling for open source developers. I current have a couple thousand MAX7K devices that I purchased gray market off eBay, which presumably were purchased thru supported distribution by the company that liquidated them at auction when they failed. If I pay the license fees, and then use that license to program these devices, will I have to forfeit the license and fees? I have not paid for a license, partly for that reason. It might be cheaper to dump them on eBay at a loss.

The Altera language states that you have read and understand the agreement, which unless you are a lawyer, might be doubtful.

Reply to
fpga_toys

Since I don't use Altera product at this point, what I don't know, is if there are open source friendly public disclosures by Altera which open up access to their tools in a friendly way.

Reply to
fpga_toys

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