Looking for Synario 3.0 (Lattice)

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Hello,
I have to work with legacy devices (Lattice Isp1032-60 and Isp1032E-70),
and I'm looking for Synario 3.0 because I must update some projects that
were made with that program version.
I need Synario 3.0 also because newer versione of this software do not
support those old CPLD.
Can someone help me?

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Re: Looking for Synario 3.0 (Lattice)
Hi Fabio,

I'd recommend checking with Lattice and asking whether the oldest
versions of their logic design software support ISP1032 and ISP1032E.
Someone there should have a legacy software package that will help you.

Otherwise, you're kinda stuck.  Synario was bought by Xilinx, I believe.
  I doubt that they'll be able to help you out.
( but one never knows until one explores a little :-) )

If you need only view the old Synario ECS schematics, I believe the
latest Lattice design software will at least let you do that much.

Best regards,
Dwayne Surdu-Miller


Re: Looking for Synario 3.0 (Lattice)
Hello Dwayne,
first I want to thank you for your answer.

You wrote:

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The situation is the following: about 5 years ago a my ex-colleague
started a project with Synario 3.0 and then discontinued it.
Now I have to resume his work and improve it.
I have searched in our software archive but Synario 3.0 cannot be found.
I only found some old floppy disk of the "Lattice IspPDS 2.71 software"
that is unuseful to me (moreover, the hardware key license does not work
properly...).
I looked on internet and downloaded Synario 5.1 : it opens my .syn files
but it says that it can't proceed correctly because the project was
saved with a ISP1032-60 , and that version of software supports only
ISP1032E series. This should NOT be a problem, because in our warehouse
we also have a ISP1032-70 device.
If I choose the ISP1032-70 device the program starts.
Then I can see schematic and ABEL files, BUT when I try to complete che
fitting process, a fatal and very strange error occurs: the report says
something like: ".....**name_of_the_command_line_invoked** : error code
-1 : failed to spawn child process "
??? It is NOT an error about the project : it seems an error regarding
some failure in the operating system (I use Windows 98: is it too
"recent" for that version of Synario??)... ???

So I downloaded the latest software ISPLever from Lattice site, but it
does not support neither 1032 nor 1032E .... :-(

It seems that the only solution (assuming that I'm not able to resolve
that strange error) is to find Synario 3.0 .... : I'll try to re-contact
my ex-colleague.

Or.... is there another solution??
Do exist some other tools that can be used?
For example, is it possible to use a third part software (and then load
the EDIF file in PDS?) ?

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In fact: in the site there are very few info

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Well, as I said above, I can see the schematics, but I have to modify
them and to program a board with that old device (I can't migrate to a
newer device: the pinout would be incompatible)

Thank you again for your support,
Fabio

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Re: Looking for Synario 3.0 (Lattice)
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If you can load, and get partway along the tool flow, that is some progress.

Dig about and see what files have been produced - the engine of Synario
is ABEL, plus vendor specific fitters.

Fitters commonly use BLIF, PLA, or sometimes EDIF files, so try and
find the .EXE that is the fitter for your old device.

"failed to spawn child process" could simply mean it was unable to find
the fitter, and if you can manually launch the fitter, it will work ok.

Talk with lattice, they should know what these legacy fitter(s) are
called, as well as file and calling methods for command line operation.

-jg



Re: Looking for Synario 3.0 (Lattice)

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The following process are ok:
- Update all schematic files OK
- Link design OK
  Linked equations OK
- Fit design OK
  Prefit equations OK
  Signal cross reference OK
  Jedec File *** FAIL ***

This is the reported message:

Synario Auto-Make Log File
--------------------------

Updating: JEDEC File

Starting: 'C:\ISPDSPS\ISPSYN\BIN\SYNDPM.EXE -i pldhcc.tt2 -if pla -p
ispLSI1032E-70LJ84 -z -of verilog -of vhdl'

Received process exit status -1
Possible system problem to spawn child process
Done: failed with exit code: -001.
----------------------------

I tried to execute that command line from MS-DOS, but SYNDPM does not
verbose anything.

Here:
http://www.fpga-faq.com/archives/09650.html#9664

...I found that someone had the same problem, but there is no
answer...

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I'll try to contact them.

Thank you very much
Fabio

Re: Looking for Synario 3.0 (Lattice)
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but presumably there is no .JED file at this stage ?

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Some educated guesses based on other fitters I've used :
SYNDPM.EXE is the lattice fitter (it may need some library files)
-i pldhcc.tt2 -> Input file is PLA format pldhcc.tt2 ( your compiled
design )
-if pla       -> confirms format, ( may also allow EDIF or BLIF options)
-p ispLSI1032E-70LJ84 -> Physical device/package to target FIT to
-z   -> ?
-of verilog   -> output format

If you are getting a .TT2 file, all your sources are
compiling/reducing to boolean eqns OK, you just need to get the
fitter to co-operate :)
It is the right version fitter ?

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I do not have syndpm.exe, but with Atmel's fitters
  fit15xx.exe  gives a short help list
  fit15xx.exe -h2 gives a full help list
  fit15xx.exe -h2 >Fit15xx.TXT  dumps that help to the .TXT file
(etc)
if theirs does not give help from blank command line, you could
trawl the .EXE in a file viewer - eg to check your SYNDPM version
is correct for your device, verify you can find target
ispLSI1032E-70LJ84 inside the .EXE

move your .PLA to the fitter/fitlib dir, and try simpler command lines.

Well behaved fitters SHOULD be able to take a PLA file, and create a JED
with a minimal command line.


-jg


Re: Looking for Synario 3.0 (Lattice)

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Yes, that is the problem :-(

Before answering to your message, I would like to update you about the
current situation: in the afternoon I've made some progress.
Assumed that SYNDPM of Synario 3.0 does not work properly, I tried to
use the SYNDPM file that I found in a directory of the recent ISPLever
4.0 . This did not give benefits (device not supported, missing DLL,
ecc...).
So I started to read some PDF documentation about Synario: I realized
that the design flow chain can be as follows:
- use Synario to make SCH, ABL files, ecc.
- use Synario to perform some steps of synthetization process (until the
Pre-fit step: you get the .tt2 file)
- import the .tt2 file in IspPDS+ software
- check pinout assigment
- compile --> obtatin JEDEC file

With this sequece it *seems* that the synthesis is ok: I tried to make a
new very simple design from scratch and it worked fine.
I'm still having some troubles in importing the old design but these
troubles *should* be overcomed.

Now your message:

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Right


This is the output format used for post-synthesis simulation?
I expected that output file was also the .jed file, right?

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Yes, it is: it is the default fitter installed with the package

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I tried /? /h -h ... but nothing....

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Good idea, I did not think to that! ;-)

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Good suggestion: I'll try it

Let me ask you another question: If I would want to syinthetize a
project using VHDL, which third party software could I use?
Something like Leonardo Spectrum, for example? (it creates an EDIF file
that is then imported from IspPDS+)

Just two last things to note:

1) In 1998 another person had my same problem! :
http://www.fpga-faq.com/archives/09650.html#9663
...but nobody answered to his message.
I wrote to that person but he could not be able to help me.

2) This morning I wrote to Lattice, and this evening they aswered asking
futher information and giving a first suggestion:
"Fabio,

The only thing I can suggest is to uninstall and reinstall the software.
Somehow the ini files  for the doftware might be pointing to another
software. "

...not big helpful.... I'll try to reinstall... who knows what will
happen.... ;-)

Thank you again, Jim, for your useful support.

Regards,
Fabio

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Re: Looking for Synario 3.0 (Lattice)
<snip>
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This was for your needed ispLSI1032E-70LJ84 - or a newer device/fitter ?

<snip>
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oops, yes, I forgot to mention that implicit one :)

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Don't you love Sw that does this! :(

  Part of it is 'muddled security thinking', and I know
Synario used encryption that caused them many problems.
  Still, a _fitter_ is not something to be paranoid about,
as the target devices make great dongles, surely ?

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  I think lattice offer a VHDL flow, but for 32 MC CPLDs
I'd suggest you stick with ABEL ( Xilinx still offer that )
ABEL (& CUPL) allows creation of test vectors in the JED file.

-jg


Re: Looking for Synario 3.0 (Lattice)

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Sorry, I don't fully understand what you mean.
I have an old Synario project saved for ispLSI1032-60 (that is not
supported by Synario 5.1), but I have available also a ispLSI1032E-70
(supported).
With the new design flowchain that I found, it seems that I'm able to
work properly with 1032E.

If also Synario would work properly (that is, if SYNDPM would not give
the "spawn child error"), I could work only with Synario without
IspPDS, I think.

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I found references about a "ISPvhdl" tool: it could be useful to me.

I looked in SYNDPM.exe with an HEX file viewer.
I found some messages:

LatticeStdioWinID   LatticeAppQuit  LatticeAppStart suspend continue  
 terminate   beat    SYNDPM EXIT MESSAGE Syndpm Exiting %d  
PDS_SYNDPM_DEBUG    SYNDPM DEBUG MESSAGE    SYNDPM CLOSING APPLICATION
 SynDPM Closing Application %d, imm:%d   SYNDPM abel_yield ended
SYNDPM MESSAGE  Syndpm break received %d    %s  SYNDPM abel_yield
started   Sent Heart Beat to Synario environment  SYNDPM To Synario  
PDS_SYNDPM_HEARTMSG %s: Child process (%d) exited with status:%d.
  Wait Child *** Process is gone?...
 Child process ID = %d, is active.
  PDS_SYNDPM_CHILDPROC    %s: Wait Child *** received child %d quit
with status %d
   %s: Wait Child *** received child %d started.
  No response from LSC Compiler...
Click cancel to abort  returning from spawnvp.
    %s: Using Current Child Id (%d) instead of handle.
 %s: Child Proc %s ID -- %d
 Request to close syndpm received.   Syndpm exiting with status %d  
%s
%s
 ****HERE ******** Received process exit status -1 Possible system
problem to spawn child process  PDS_DPM_EXE SYNDPM LICENSE ERROR  
for the ispDS+ 5.1 compiler.
   FlexLM License file must be copied to the above location
   License file %s not found.
 Application Registered  SYNDPM DEBUG    ispDS+  rt  PDS_SYNDPM_ARGS
LATTICE_CONSOLE_ID=%u   %s/bin/dpm.exe  Environment Variable PDSPLUS
is undefined.  PDSPLUS=d:\pdsplus  PDSPLUS=%s
PATH=%s
 PATH=%s\bin;%s; PATH    Cannot open current context SYNDPM CONTEXT
Env License File    Set License File  
LM_LICENSE_FILE=%s\license\license.dat  PDS_LIC=%s  PDSPLUS=%s
LM_LICENSE_FILE=%s  FOUND LM_LICENSE_FILE   LM_LICENSE_FILE PDSLic
PDS_LIC Failed to get PDSPLUS context string    SYNARIO PDSPath ENV
PDSPath SYNARIO PDSPLUS ENV PDS_SYNDPM_ENV  PDSPLUS syndpm.log  wt
PDS_SYNDPM_LOG=1    c:\tmp\syndpm.log   PDS_STDIO_DEBUG=1  
c:\tmp\syndpm.sio   PDS_SYNDPM_HEARTMSG=1   c:\tmp\syndpm.hbt  
PDS_SYNDPM_ENV=1    c:\tmp\syndpm.env   PDS_SYNDPM_ARGS=1  
c:\tmp\syndpm.arg   PDS_SYNDPM_DIOMSG=1 c:\tmp\syndpm.msg  
PDS_SYNDPM_DEBUG=1  c:\tmp\syndpm.dbg   PDS_SYNDPM_LOG  SYNDPM
TKOutputProcMsg  Data String(%d): '%s'   PDS_SYNDPM_DIOMSG   Syndpm
Terminate msg received %d    OWNER_PROCESS   CREATE COM WINDOW   %s:
Failed to Create Application's COM window.
 STDIO PROC %d   laStdioCommClass



There are references to environment variable to set, and many other
things... : I tried to set some variables: something strange happens
(the hard disk works for more  time than when no variable are set),
but the result is negative.

Even when not setting anything, I noticed that after sending the
command line, a short windows appear and suddendly disappears: it
could be the "child" process that generates the problem to SYNDPM....

Maybe with other changes I could find the solution, but I've already
lost too much time: I'll try to use the alternative design flow chain.

Thank you again,
Bye!

Re: Looking for Synario 3.0 (Lattice)
<snip>
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  Hmmm, sounds like this fitter uses the KEY and license scheme of a
certain release Synario, so you will need to have all that correctly
installed and setup.

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If the 'E' version fits, and you have a tool flow for that, sounds like
you are OK.

-jg


Re: Looking for Synario 3.0 (Lattice)
Your best bet would be to get Lattice to send you a copy of ispDesign
Expert
V8.4 (ispDE V8.4) it will support isp1032-60 and isp1032E-70 devices,
all the older devices.  Request a license as well based on your C
drive serial number.
Go to a DOS prompt and type "C:\vol" and send the request to
lic snipped-for-privacy@latticesemi.com along with old Lattice key ID (10 digit
number).

Try Lattice Tech Support.   snipped-for-privacy@latticesemi.com
They should be able to help.

The spawning problem I ran into a few years ago.  If I remember
correctly
the pdsplus environment variable had spaces after the last character:
pdsplus=C:\pdsplus\bin (do not have any spaces after the n in bin)
this was in a really old version of the software V5.0 or older.

Also no spaces where you install the software and no spaces in file
names
or directory names.

If you can get the ispDE V8.4 to get to the older devices you will
need to
get that info from Lattice.  Just let them know what you need.
Hope this helps.

--Coop


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Re: Looking for Synario 3.0 (Lattice)

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Sure it helps! :-)
I do want to thank you and the other people who are helping me to solve
my problems with the software.
Before writing here I did not expect I could receive so much useful
feedback ;-)

Just give me some time to apply your suggestions. I will let you know
about news.

Thank you again,
Fabio

PS: I also received your email. I will reply to the other questions
soon.

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