Free PCI-bridge in VHDL for Spartan-IIE

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Free PCI-bridge in VHDL for Spartan-IIE

Somebody knows the implementation of
http://www.infotech.tu-chemnitz.de/~tlau/pci_bridge

Regards.
__________________________________________________________________ Torsten
Lauter ICQ#: 14492119 Current ICQ status: + More ways to contact me
__________________________________________________________________



Re: Free PCI-bridge in VHDL for Spartan-IIE
Torsten,

what do you mean by "Free" ?
on the link there is notice

"if interested please contact using a form" - there is no reference to any
form or download location or conditions.
so what it is all about?

also the website says the ref design uses Spartan III not IIE ?

antti
www.openchip.org


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Re: Free PCI-bridge in VHDL for Spartan-IIE
Hi,

Mine isn't going to be free, but . . . I am considering releasing a PCI
IP core I have been working on for quite some time, and I am trying to
gauge the demand out there for a commercial-grade PCI IP core for
personal users.
However, the PCI IP core itself probably won't be available for another
three months at the earliest (I still need to fix some minor problems,
and setup the infrastructure before the release.).
The price I am thinking of charging for my PCI IP core is only $100
(USD) as long as the licensee meets the following conditions.

* The licensee resides within the United States (Don't have to be a US
citizen.).
* The licensee Will agree that the PCI IP core will be used only for
non-commercial, non-profit, non-academic research, and personal
purposes.
* The licensee is will agree, sign, and mail back to a license agreement
form I will provide.
* The licensee will pay for the PCI IP core license through an online
payment source like PayPal.



This is what my PCI IP core looks like:

* PCI Local Bus Revision 2.2 compliant.
* Burst initiator/target access support.
* 6 Base Address Register (BAR) and Expansion ROM BAR support.
* Meets 33MHz PCI timings with Spartan-II-5 (Currently, no 66MHz PCI
support with any device due to setup time issues . . .).
* General purpose PCI testbench comes with a PCI arbiter, PCI host
bridge emulator, and PCI target device to allow the user to quickly
debug their design.
* The PCI IP core supplied in NGO netlist format (Xilinx's proprietary
netlist format.).
* Nominally supports Xilinx Virtex, Spartan-II, or newer FPGAs.
* Constraint file supplied for Spartan-II PQ208 and FG456 package,
Virtex-E XCV300E BG432 package, Insight Electronics Spartan-II 150 PCI
card, and Spartan-II 200 PCI card.
* Comes with three reference designs (Two similar target only designs
and one target/initiator design.).
* Fully supports Verilog (Reference designs and the PCI testbench are
written in Verilog.).
* Limited VHDL support (No reference designs and PCI testbench. Might do
VHDL porting of reference designs and PCI testbench someday, but I won't
guarantee that.).
* Supports ISE WebPACK 3.2 or later (The use of ISE WebPACK 5.1 or later
is strongly recommended.).
* Should work with paid version (non-WebPACK) ISE software, but hasn't
been tested.
* Free Xilinx ISE WebPACK and ModelSim XE-Starter can be used to
simulate, synthesize, place & route, and generate a bitstream file.
* Should work with non-XST synthesis tools, but hasn't been tested.


        The PCI IP core will also be available for commercial licensees
in NGO netlist format or as Verilog RTL code, but they will cost
considerably more than $100 (Especially the Verilog RTL license.).
The motivation behind this $100 license is to allow hobbyists to build
their own PCI device for about $500 ($275 for Insight Electronics
Spartan-II 200 PCI card with a parallel port JTAG cable, $100 for the
PCI IP core license, $100 for a printed copy of PCI specification from
PCI-SIG, and other miscellaneous costs like shipping cost and sales
tax.) without having them to spend too much time designing their own PCI
interface.
My guess is that there are probably a few hundred people in the United
States who will rather license a PCI IP core with testbench for $100
than to do their own or use Opencores.org PCI IP core.
I believe this PCI IP core is a great learning vehicle for those who
want to learn programmable logic or Verilog, or for use in a student
project (The student can concentrate on backend logic rather than the
PCI bus.).
Let me know if anyone is interesting in this product.


Kevin Brace




Antti Lukats wrote:
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Re: Free PCI-bridge in VHDL for Spartan-IIE
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Rather heavy-handed set of restrictions, don't you think?

--
    Sander

+++ Out of cheese error +++

Re: Free PCI-bridge in VHDL for Spartan-IIE
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        That's because the licensee is paying only $100.
If the licensee is willing to pay much more than that, that person can
use my PCI IP core in a commercial project.


Kevin Brace

Re: Free PCI-bridge in VHDL for Spartan-IIE
On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 15:25:02 -0600, Kevin Brace

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Given Sander's email address, I'm guessing he was objecting to one
restriction in particular... and it may not have been the price.
I have problems with it too... ans I'm curious - what is it there for?

- Brian

Re: Free PCI-bridge in VHDL for Spartan-IIE

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I could live with that restriction.

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I could live with that restriction.

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I almost could live with that restriction as well, although would prefer
direct credit card payment, as PayPal doesn't think my country worthy
enough to be able to subscribe.

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That requirement I find offensive. There is life outside US as well. There
might even be developers that don't reside in US.

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It's not the commercial project requirement that's unreasonable, as you
can see from above.

PS. Sorry if I was too sarcastic, I couldn't help it.

--
Taavi Hein,
developer residing outside US.

Re: Free PCI-bridge in VHDL for Spartan-IIE
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Really? You do realise that should you prototype something in the FPGA
that works with that core (whetveer directly or now) you are effectively
forced to *ALWAYS* start over from scratch if you want to use it in
some other project? This is the sucky part about such a core - you can't
get a replacement one and continue developing in that, be cause the moment
you try you may be suddenly retroactively screwed from start (notice the
word continue).

--
    Sander

+++ Out of cheese error +++

Re: Free PCI-bridge in VHDL for Spartan-IIE
        The $100 license for my PCI IP core is not intended for
prototyping of a commercial product.
Whoever wanting to use it in a commercial product should get a
commercial license which will cost several thousand dollars because
that's what other firms charge for a comparable PCI IP core, and that's
probably how much I need to get paid to run a business, and make a
living out of doing of it.
        My intention for the $100 PCI IP core license is that hobbyists,
FPGA enthusiasts, and students simply cannot afford commercial PCI IP
cores which cost several thousand dollars, but they probably want a
commercial quality PCI IP core for something they can afford to pay.
Realistically speaking, I don't believe they are willing to pay anything
more than $100 for such a PCI IP core, so that's how much I can probably
charge.
From a business perspective, if I can get 100 users to pay $100, I will
earn $10,000, which is comparable to several commercial design wins.
The only problem is, as the number of licensees grow, the quality of
technical support will probably degrade because I will be have to deal
with more licensees.


Kevin Brace



Sander Vesik wrote:
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Re: Free PCI-bridge in VHDL for Spartan-IIE
On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 23:32:31 +0000 (UTC), Sander Vesik

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Oops! I missed the "non-" in front of academic research... I'm sorry
Kevin, but I'll have to take back the above statement.

--
Taavi Hein,
...who sometimes tries to read too fast.

Re: Free PCI-bridge in VHDL for Spartan-IIE
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Not the point. The heavy handed part is 'US only, no-research, pay
money and return printed licence'.

You know, your licenceing is way more restrictive for which I can
download the Oracle database and most of their products, and same
applies to IBM and similar. Not only are your terms unreasonable,
you aren't even really all that price competitive as far as one-shot
PCI cores go.

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--
    Sander

+++ Out of cheese error +++

Re: Free PCI-bridge in VHDL for Spartan-IIE
        The $100 license's US residency requirement is there because if
a licensee violates the license agreement of personal use, and uses the
PCI IP core in a commercial project in a foreign country, it is probably
going to be much harder to stop that than if it happened in this
country.
The no-academic research restriction is there because I want to charge
more than $100 for research-related academic use.
If you don't like that, talk to Xilinx, because I heard that they
sometimes donate their PCI IP core to universities.
        Regarding your "one-shot PCI cores" comment, no, mine will cost
$100 more than a free one, but as a product it will be identical to a
commercial version I am planning to charge much more than $100.
Plus, the licensee can receive technical support through a forum in
Yahoo! Groups I am planning to set up.


Kevin Brace



Sander Vesik wrote:
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Re: Free PCI-bridge in VHDL for Spartan-IIE
|> The no-academic research restriction is there because I want to charge
|> more than $100 for research-related academic use.

Let me get this straight. The use should be

        - non-commercial
        - non-profit
        - non-academic research
        - strictly personal purposes

So who the hell should license that core? I can understand that you rule out
commercial use, I *could* understand if you ruled out industrial research.

But ruling out academic research because you want to charge *more* from
universities is reducing the number of potential customers pretty much to
zero.

Rainer

Re: Free PCI-bridge in VHDL for Spartan-IIE
Our conditions:

Dear User,

thank you for your interest in our free VHDL PCI core.
The VHDL code is provided to you free of charge and we ask you not to pass
it on to any third parties.

The design has been tested and is expected to run smoothly.
However, no support or design guidance is guaranteed.
Its use is at your own risk and you take over full liability.

We reserve the right to name you/your company as reference user.
In turn, you ought to reference us as origin of the PCI core in the final
product description (e.g. manual, flyer etc.).

Code documentation is also at early stage, since the VHDL design is part of
a bigger project. Once there is time left in the project schedule, we will
round up the documentation.

To sum up the conditions:

- the code is provided free of charge
- no guarantee is given what so ever
- you agree to be named as reference user
- you must not pass the code on to third parties
- documentation is at early stage and support can not be guaranteed
- a reference (acknowledgement notice) to us as origin of the PCI core
  must be included in the final product description

Finally, we would appreciate your feedback about functionality, application
scenarios, documentation and code add ons.

We ask you to agree to the conditions given above by means of an appropriate
email answer.
The VHDL PCI core will be emailed to you as soon as your compliance email
arrives.

Regards,

Torsten Lauter & Thomas Knoll

http://www.infotech.tu-chemnitz.de/~knoll/vhdl_pci_bridge /

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out



Re: Free PCI-bridge in VHDL for Spartan-IIE
        The $100 PCI IP core license is intended for hobbyists, FPGA
enthusiasts, Verilog learners, and students who want to make their own
PCI device for personal use.
I believe there are potentially several hundred people in the US who are
willing to pay $100 for the license.
It is my perception that people who do research can probably pay more
than a personal user, so I feel like I should charge more for a license
than a personal user.
If cost is that much of an issue, ask Xilinx because I read in this
newsgroup while back that they do sometimes donate their PCI IP core to
educational institutions.
I just don't intend to compete with a free one.


Kevin Brace



Rainer Buchty wrote:
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Re: Free PCI-bridge in VHDL for Spartan-IIE
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anyways, its up to you what you do. Seeing a marketplace of non-mass
production IP cores emerge would ceertainly be nice.

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--
    Sander

+++ Out of cheese error +++

Re: Free PCI-bridge in VHDL for Spartan-IIE

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That's about as smart as PHB's who insist on buying commercial software and
avoiding open source software as they want to know who they can sue if they
have problems.  I know web-based sales are more anonymous than traditional
shops, but isn't decending from "the customer is always right" to "the
customer is probably a thief" going a bit far?

If someone within the US decides to "steal" your core by using it in a
commercial product, or, heaven forbid, learning something by using it
(academic research being also forbidden), what exactly are you going to do
about it?  The likely culprit will either be someone too small to be worth
bothering about since they would not have bought a full license anyway, or
big enough that lawyers fees and a court battle would cost far more than its
worth.

When you are selling high-price software (and presumably this applies to
your fully licensed core), you can afford to use tight legal licenses and
agreements that will be internationally enforcable.  But for low-price
software available by download, you have to accept that there will be a
certain amount of illegal use of the software.  That's a fact, and you won't
change it.  You won't be able to stop it, and you won't be able to sue the
abusers.  There are a few things you can do to stop this being a problem -
one is to make sure users can see the advantages of using the part legally,
such as better support, upgrades, restrictions in the evaluation parts
functionality (such as limited run time, as used by Altera's OpenCore
system, or lower performance), etc.  Another is to widen your market - if
removing the "US-only" restriction gives you ten times as many paying
customers, would it matter if it also gave you a hundred times as many
pirates?

So please reconsider your attitude here, or perhaps stick to what you know
best (which is presumably VHDL design and pci cores :-) and get someone else
to handle your sales and marketting.




Re: $100 for Americans PCI-bridge in NGO netlist for Spartan-IIE (Was: Free ... VHDL)

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So, what is wrong with the OpenCores PCI?

http://www.opencores.org/projects.cgi/web/pci/home

Especially when you concider that you also get the
generic source, you have not indicated any price
for that...

/RogerL

--
Roger Larsson
Skellefteň
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Re: $100 for Americans PCI-bridge in NGO netlist for Spartan-IIE (Was: Free ... VHDL)
        I am trying to run a business (Sounds better than working at a
retailer.) licensing my PCI IP core to other firms or people, so the RTL
code will cost as much as a new car.
As far as I know, that's how much IP core firms charge for a PCI IP
core.
I probably shouldn't trash Opencores.org PCI IP core here, but I believe
my PCI IP core will be easier for beginners to use than Opencores.org
PCI IP core because it is structually simpler, will be supplied in
netlist format (As opposed to having to synthesize the PCI IP core.),
and comes with a constraint file to meet setup and hold time
requirements of PCI.


Kevin Brace



Roger Larsson wrote:
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Re: Free PCI-bridge in VHDL for Spartan-IIE
Hello

You must go on the website and must fill out the form.
You get the data per email then.
I have gotten the data per email and nothing pays.

Regards

Torsten Lauter

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Torsten



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