Zigbee

If power has stopped getting to the freezer or its control micro that it would need to network the data fails it is of no use. Putting extra bits onto a 'central computer' to always expect a message from each device and alarm when one times out is extra cost and development.

Those sorts of problems have safety devices to deal with those problems that MUST by regulations (in most countries) be simple devices on the the equipment. Thermal cutouts and pressure release valves have been around for over 100 years (nearer 200).

Most devices that have incorporated those over the years have nearly always ended up with them either removed or not used. Many cookers (and microwaves) have or still have bells/buzzers on them for such purposes, even I have known many cookers/ovens that had mechanical clocks and alarms years ago.

People once they have had one generally don't see it as essential when they get another one.

As someone else said how are you going to process and sort that much data into anything of any real use beyond the first couple of quarters when it is new and interesting. Beyond that it becomes a chore and either the tail starts wagging the dog or like cooker timers, does not get used.

You might, but there is still a large amount of the population 'stuck in the old ways' who are the main people actually doing the cooking etc. Many are technophobes, and find that most of these UI implementations are overkill and like a lot of online ordering, it is quicker to do it the old way as the UI is too long and complicated. Like a lot of people I know find the ordering processes laborious and long so find the information then phone up an order!

I agree a more sophisticated heating system would be nice to load lots of presets like "I am having three days off so heat all day" would be nice. Unfortunately most web interfaces I have seen go two ways

1/ Web limited copy of existing poor UI and restricted timing patterns. 2/ Over the top highly graphical, with lots of logos and other marketing information, with too many pages and steps to set things up.

This is the same as networked printer web interfaces.

That is for those who have bothered to look up statistics for themselves. Most gardeners know from watching the weather, or the weather forecast/channel information.

So prone to be disabled or ignored like a lot of reminders and other things in cars.

This type of over the top is what a very small percentage of the GLOBAL population want and most of those are the gadgeteers and early adopters looking for something new not what they actually need.

Just because gadgeteers want to buy it, does not mean their is a big enough market to produce it.

You can get all sorts of home automation already including automatic and remote controlled lights and curtains, to sometimes link in with your security system. How many people do you know that actually have these? They have been around for years!

--
Paul Carpenter          | paul@pcserviceselectronics.co.uk
    PC Services
              GNU H8 & mailing list info
             For those web sites you hate

If I am actively monitoring it, and it no longer responds, I certainly should be alerted about it, just like I get alerted if my CPU fan quits turning.

In my 20 years out on my own, I've had three pressure valves blow, flooding the basement.

I am not necessarily going to keep it all, only what I am interested in. And what I am interested in may be completely different than the next guy. In general, I would likely only keep or be notified of out-of-norm data.

Nope, but a buck or three wouldn't bother me.

Didn't say anything about closing it. More like the door ajar light on the car dash, without the annoying bong sound.

Of course not, just as not everyone gets icemakers or surround sound.

How about using an 15.4 transceiver with integrated MAC, such as this:

Cheers, JonB

And what good is a remote monitoring of that going to do you? If you're actually off site, by the time you get there to do something about it, it's quite certainly too late.

The morale: instead of monitoring crappy parts that are likely to break, it may just be a better idea to use a quality part.

You're neglecting the central dogma of privacy protection: all data, once generated, will eventually be used by *someone* --- thus, the only reliable way to protect your privacy from being invaded is to not even acquire those data.

You would. But what about the burglar investigating your habits to find out when best to come and steal it all? Or your nosey insurance company detective?

You're not getting the point: a buck or three per device may very well

*be* 10 times the cost of the basic device.

Yeah, and guess why they added that "annoying bong sound"? Right, because the warning light kept getting ignored.

--
Hans-Bernhard Broeker (broeker@physik.rwth-aachen.de)
Even if all the snow were burnt, ashes would remain.

It was the thermostats that were the problem. And I wouldn't be monitoring them off site, it would be in my house.

not

And so, if I'm worried about that, I turn that feature off (or more correct in terms of security, I never turn it on). If not, I do what I want with it.

And he gets access to this how? Yes, we may be talking wireless here, but I certainly am not talking open networks. I'd expect a fairly healthy level of security to be in place. Sure, nothing is unbreakable, and some are easily broken (see WEP), but lessons have been and are being learned.

well

I want to buy my appliances where you buy them, then. A $0.30 refridgerator, water heater or cordless phone sounds like a sweet deal.

Because it was in a car and driving with an open door is dangerous. Leaving my garage door open is usually costs heating/cooling bills, or perhaps a security problem that an alarm system would note when you went to arm it for the night.

The point is, not everyone will want these types of things, but some will. Look at how many people have suffered through X-10 setups (and those who've actually managed to make them work), and you can tell home automation isn't something that no one wants. Some people do want it. Some people will build it. Some people will buy it.

I personally would like to use my own MAC protocol in some cases. 802.15.4 is has limitations. Such as the star cluster topology. Mesh networking is not supported. In fact, without Zigbee it is not clear how to use 802.15.4 in multi-hop networks.

You can implement whatever network topology you wish (including mesh).

15.4 doesn't specify this because it isn't a network layer specification!

Cheers, JonB

I may be mistaken as I have only skimmed the standard, but I think you are wrong. It looks to me like a RFD can only communicate with one FFD, forming a star topology with FFDs as the cluster heads. Only if your entire network is FFDs can you do as you please.

The standards group is working on mesh networking now, and to my knowledge has not finalized a solution.

In my opinion these standards are too large and try to be everything to everyone. Therefore little details from upper layer protocols start slipping in.

- Tom

Do you need all of ZigBee? or just IEEE 802.15.4 Low Power Wireless Sensor Networks?

For just the 802.15.4, you can get Chipcon's two unit development kit for about $500 from Mouser and probably digikey.

Full zigbee requires the more expensive kits, from Chipcon, Ember or others.

The technology works, the key question IMHO is what acceptance will it have.

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Pat