X and NFS servers on XP

Cygwin for X Server works very well.

I haven't tried its NFS server (or client) capabilities myself, but with how well it works otherwise, I'd imagine it would work fine.

I've done the Microsoft NFS for Windows with no problems before, but I believe thats for the server software editions only.

There are several routes to doing "unixy" things in windows, each with their pros and cons.

1. Cygwin. This is, at heart, a posix compatibility layer built on top of windows. That means that you can build a lot of posix (or linux) software with it, and run it on windows. It is far and away the most comprehensive method - there are huge numbers of *nix programs that have cygwin builds. The disadvantages are that the extra layer is sometimes slow (especially for file access and dealing with processes), cygwin feels somewhat alien to windows, and cygwin1.dll takes windows dll hell to a whole new dimension.
2. Mingw. This is similar to cygwin, except it takes the strategy that if windows can't handle the feature natively, you don't get the feature. Thus mingw programs can't treat everything as a file in the way cygwin (like posix) does - cygwin is happy with things like hard links and named pipes, while mingw doesn't like them much. On the other hand, as long as you are dealing with "normal" files, mingw is much faster, and more "native" on windows.

The best rule here, IMHO, is to use mingw and mingw programs (such as xming) when you can, cygwin when you must.

1. Windows "services for unix". I don't know anything about them, though this might be the best choice for an NFS client.
2. Virtual machines. As desktops get more powerful and have more memory, this is getting more and more popular. Install VirtualBox, make a virtual machine with your favourite distro, and run your X and NFS in there. For a slightly harder but more efficient route, use colinux instead of VirtualBox.

Xming is a pretty good X server for Windows, although to get anything newer than a few years old, you'll have to donate to the author.

Jason

I thought Cygwin was an emulation layer (Unix under Windows)? Or, is it too early in the morning for my brain to have kicked into gear...?

OK, I'll go looking for it and see what it is/does.

SFU scares me due to its *size* and fear of what MS has "failed to get right" (since they resist doing anything EXACTLY like the rest of the world has SUCCESSFULLY done for decades prior). I have to setup a laptop so perhaps I'll "trial install" it there (immediately after the OS so I have very little to *reinstall* if I decide to scrub it from the machine).

Not looking to do "UNIX-y" things. Just the aforementioned servers.

Hmmm... this is more in line with my impression of Cygwin. Though Doug (another respondent) claims they have an X server port as well. On my list of things to chase down.

I don't see how any of this should be pertinent to an X server. OTOH, there can be ramifications for NFS client/server implementations. I'll look into it to see what they disclaim.

Looking for *a* solution, not a hodgepodge. If I want UN*X, I already *have* UN*X (in various flavors). I just want a bridge to get to/from my servers when in the Windows world.

See my comments to Doug re: SFU.

Too much work. Like building a car when all you need is a bicycle for short trips to the store.

I've used eXceed and PC-XWare in years past and been happy with their level of conformance and performance. Unfortunately, I haven't upgraded in years and, consequentially, my versions won't run on XP.

I'm just downloading trials to see if things *still* work (or if they have managed to shoot themselves in their feet). It may be more expedient to just buy licenses for those (either/or).

Thanks, David (another respondent) brought them up. From your combined comments, it seems like a one-man "hobby" project. I think I'll steer clear and look for something that has a real "commitment" behind it (I don't want to waste time chasing down issues that the author didn't quite "get right").

Don,

Carl Beame and Fred Whitesides invented BWNFS some years back, and it seemed to work pretty well ... they were subsequently purchased by Exceed (who made an X-Windows product for Windows), and ultimately became Hummingbird, which was I think purchased by Open Text ... (I think or was it the other way around?) -- the upshot??

I've used both the Xceed products, and the BWNFS, but not since the 90's, so while the experience is first hand, it is dated. I've not dealt with OpenText in any way, but here is a link to their connectivity products:

Hope this helps ... Rob Sciuk

Yes, I've used eXceed before. I was unaware of the history (just thought it was "Hummingbird eXceed"). As I mentioned in another reply, I'm pursuing that and the PC-Xware product.

Obviously, the margins must not be high enough in these markets (or, their support/development costs too high) as I see NCD (PC-Xware) has suffered the same "buy-out" fate that these folks have. (though, to be fair, NCD also made the mistake? of trying to be in the hardware business competing with PC's whose price continually plummets)

Thanks, I'll post a summary of my experiences with each.

But, right now, busy trying to keep the citrus warm... :-/

I use Xming a lot and and it works fine. The main drawback is that it only supports OpenGL 1.2 and without hardware acceleration. There appears to be some support in the more recent version (which requires a donation), but I don't have any experience with that.

Cygwin used to offer a version of the X server with OpenGL acceleration, but it was quite unreliable and they seem to have given up on it. There doesn't seem to be any reason to choose Cygwin's X server over Xming.

If you want accelerated (or modern) OpenGL, there's StarNet X-Win32 and Hummingbird eXceed. But if you're going that route, it's probably worth taking a gamble and seeing what you get from Xming with the £10 donation. X-Win32 is $285, while eXceed is $545 plus $195 for the OpenGL upgrade.

Cygwin provides an NFS server, but I have no experience with it.

Yes, Cygwin is a heavy layer, trying to bring many Unix/POSIX commands and sub-systems to a windows platform, but they are fairly complete on different subsystems, offering an X Server (which I use), and NFS server/client (which I don't). among many other offerings (ie. SSH, etc).

There's not that many X Servers left for windows, the market not providing much need for one. Now-a-days, many companies would develop on Windows first rather than a unix platform, or provide some sort of web interface to the app on unix before writing a heavy X app version of what you need.

I've even seen interfaces written to be VLC'd back into a unix machine rather than depending on a windows user to get an X Server installed to talk back to unix clients. But that isn't common.

SFU is discontinued. Its Server for NFS now. Theoritically getting rid of some of the crusty stuff like NIS, LPR and PC-NFS to do just what people are expecting of the package.

That's not entirely accurate. The huge majority of gui software is written using toolkits these days, rather than bare X or Win32 api. Common choices include MFC (for windows-only VC++ addicts) and wx, QT and GTK for cross-platform or Linux development. Almost nothing is written for X or X-only toolkits these days. This means that a lot of software for X that is not otherwise dependent on *nix, or heavily integrated with a *nix desktop, is cross-platform and runs native on windows.

Using VLC to access a Linux virtual machine seems like a good choice to me.

They do indeed have an X server, and it's easy to install (it's just a checkbox-click away when you run the normal cygwin setup.exe installer). But xming is a lot smaller and faster.

It depends on what you are doing, and the power of your machine. If you have plenty of ram and processor speed to spare, then there is little need to consider the speed of the X server. Then it boils down to which gives the best features - it may be that you will use NFS from cygwin anyway, and then the cygwin X server may be a better fit. On the other hand, if you start running into cygwin1.dll hell, then xming is a way to avoid that.

Of course, they are both open source - you can try both and pick the one you like.

As a disclaimer, I haven't used either in years - I use Linux virtual machines or pure Linux boxes for running X software. But I use a /lot/ of open source command line software, and much prefer mingw when there is a choice. Most of my gcc cross-compilers are built with mingw, with only a few cygwin based.

It's open source - you get a choice whether you want it or not!

At that price, it's cheaper just to buy a second computer and install Linux - then you get /real/ accelerated OpenGL.

If you're running an X server on Windows, you probably already have a second computer running some flavour of Unix.

Using Windows as an X terminal avoids the need for two keyboards/mice/monitors (or the need to find a KVM switch that's at least moderately reliable), and you get to copy-paste between the two.

No, I already have too many hosts to contend with (I think my name server has ~40 entires, already -- though only about a third of those are "interactive hosts").

Or *several*. :>

The latter is the biggest motivation. I do all my DTP on Windows boxes (there just aren't any OSS tools that come close to those available under Windows). It's annoying to have to:

- switch monitor (A/B) to UN*X host (or move to other workstation)

- grab UN*X host's keyboard and mouse

- call up application

- grab window/screen contents (tool varies with UN*X flavor)

- save XWD to SAMBA share (or NFS mount or FTP directory)

- switch monitor back to Windows host

- grab Windows keyboard/mouse

- pull down SAMBA/NFS/FTP file (XWD image)

- paste into DTP applicaation

- HOPE it's what you really wanted (else lather, rinse, repeat)

If I can serve up the application's display *on* the Windows desktop, then I can just use Windows tools to:

- access the remote UN*X host

- take a snapshot of the image in question

- paste into DTP

- lather, rinse, repeat as required

IIRC, PC-XWare and eXceed each let me freely mix X windows with Windows windows (common desktop) -- i.e., you didn't end up with a giant "X desktop" *in* a Windows window. So, you didn't have to lose big chunks of display real estate to support the X server.

[I think at least one of them also had a mode in which I could define a maximum desktop (root window) size and set up an "X desktop in a Windows window". This will be helpful for testing apps to be served by PDAs.]

And, I'm pretty sure both supported font servers.

I'll load the PC-Xware "trial version" later tonight and see if that continues to be the case. A friend will be bringing by a laptop with eXceed, tomorrow, so I can check that out at the same time.

Good points.

I tend to use VNC if I want a gui from a second machine (Linux or Windows) on my normal desktop. But you don't get OpenGL very well that way - not that I've ever had need of it. It depends on the sorts of programs you want to run - most remote software I need can run over ssh, so I don't need any kind of gui.

rdesktop to VirtualBox is really good too, at least over a local link.

--

John Devereux

Have you considered using VNC on why clients?

G

I have used the cywin NFS client and server. No problem when using within the cygwin environment, but a bit of a pain outside.

For a quite inexpensive paid for solution you might try

I have only used their demo version ( which had some restriction - can't remember exactely what). This worked very well within the windows environment.

Regards Anton Erasmus