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Re: What Software Engineering Process is best suited for Embedded Projects

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Except that is treating the symptoms not the disease.

Ian


Re: What Software Engineering Process is best suited for Embedded Projects

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Yes, but I am not interested in well documented garbage.

Ian


Re: What Software Engineering Process is best suited for Embedded Projects
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Well, copious documentation, anyway.

--
Trevor Barton

Re: What Software Engineering Process is best suited for Embedded Projects
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As with US DoD projects documented to MIL-STD requirements?

Re: What Software Engineering Process is best suited for Embedded Projects
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That may be so, and I agree that its a mistaken belief. However,
without a process you don't even have a way of measuring quality.

TW

Re: What Software Engineering Process is best suited for Embedded Projects

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I agree and I do not think I ever said there should not be a process.
However, the second great quality myth is that one process suits all
situations.

Ian


Re: What Software Engineering Process is best suited for Embedded Projects
On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 20:14:15 +0000, Ian Bell

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As an aside; whilst this thread has been in progress and
I have been arguing that quality systems are very overrated
I have discovered that a (electronic) product I own whose
sole function is that of life saving in dire situations and is
designed and manufactured by a company who proudly
proclaim ISO9002 and a TQM Programme, and said
product has been in production for at least five years,
has a major design flaw which could easily render it
useless on that single occasion it may be required to
perform it's task. Looks like a quality system didn't work
in this case. I'll provide full details at a later date.

Mike Harding


Re: What Software Engineering Process is best suited for Embedded Projects

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I am not in the least surprised.  one of the things we used to do was a
design audit for other companies, mainly when they were having problems
with a product.  Because any effect can have a large number of causes is
was piintless to postulate causes from known effects.  So we created a set
of basic good design and engineering judgement criteria and measured the
design against them.  This allowed us to identify design weaknesses.  We
found a very high correlation between these and observed faults i.e if the
design weaknesses were addressed the faults were fixed.

The reason I say this is that many of the products we examined were
developed in companies with full blown QA systems and they had just as many
occurences of design weaknesses as those developed elsewhere.  Which leads
me to the quality myth #3 which is that is eleimnates design errors and/or
promotes good design.

Ian


Re: What Software Engineering Process is best suited for Embedded Projects
           snipped-for-privacy@ruffrecordsDOTworldonline.co.uk "Ian Bell" writes:

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For some industries there is a web-site where such anomolies are reported
and recorded. The Chemical Industry is one such. Perhaps there should be
similar for other industries. I will try and dig up a link or two.
 
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To add to your myths list #4 could be "the level of quality is
proportional to the thickness of the QA manual". This myth I know
is a falsehood from personal experience. Mainly, with very large QA
manuals no-one can be bothered to read them.

By far the best way of ensuring quality and integrity of your final
product is to conduct decent technical reviews at regular intervals.
Usually this will be the completion of a stage of development for
the design, or the production of a component. Any reasonably complex
product will have undergone several thousand reviews by the time it is
released to the market.

Technical Reviews do not have to occupy innordinate amounts of time.
They can be as brief as 5 minutes or up to 2 hours (they should not
be longer than this - if they are you are dealing with something that
is more complex than you should be reviewing at one time).

Keep the process simple (so that everyone can remember it) and apply
it at all times. To answer the question about whether or not one
process can be applied to all situations; yes it can so long as it
is a simple process that has an affinity with the hierarchy of the
projects you are dealing with and can be simply managed while leaving
a good audit trail.

--
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Re: What Software Engineering Process is best suited for Embedded Projects
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Agree with you 100% you go some smart guy or girle who promise the
customer something that they will delivery that is unrealistic in the
time frame. In that case one just wants it to work a little bit.

Re: What Software Engineering Process is best suited for Embedded Projects

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Amen to that. You can make a case that the quality assurance system is
necessary, but it is not sufficient.


Re: What Software Engineering Process is best suited for Embedded Projects

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I have seen two companies choke and die as a result of overly dominant
QA, with insufficient actual project development.

Documentation is a necessary part of any project, but it can stifle them
as well when taken to extremes.

Al


Re: What Software Engineering Process is best suited for Embedded Projects
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No matter how good or dedicated engineers are it is essential that the
team agree on a set of guidelines or policies to drive the software
process. If the team is good the guidelines and policies will be
adjusted accordingly for the situation. It goes without saying.

Re: What Software Engineering Process is best suited for Embedded Projects
On Wed, 05 Nov 2003 19:49:57 +0000, Ian Bell

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This is an interesting statement -- you may be delivering product
faster, but how can you assess that your deliverable has attained any
level of quality if you don't have any "quality" goals.

Ken.

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Re: What Software Engineering Process is best suited for Embedded Projects

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I didn't say we did not have any quality goals just that there is no formal
quality system.  The problem generaly is not quality itself but rather the
systems for achieving it.

Ian


Re: What Software Engineering Process is best suited for Embedded Projects
On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 09:13:05 +0000, Ian Bell

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That's a fair statement, but with no or a lack of a formal quality
system, I can't see how a claim of any "measurable" quality can be
made about their deliverable or product. A product with "trust me,
she'll be right" credentials, I'm sure has limited appeal to many
customers and is a difficult sell when trying to win new contracts.

Ken.

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Re: What Software Engineering Process is best suited for Embedded Projects
On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 00:23:22 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@noname.com (Ken Lee)
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Given the complexity (impossibility?) of fully testing
embedded real time software what level of confidence
could be placed in any QC system?

Mike Harding


Re: What Software Engineering Process is best suited for Embedded Projects

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An I would debate the 'measurability' of quality anyway.

Ian


Re: What Software Engineering Process is best suited for Embedded Projects
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Why is it impossible to fully test an embedded real time system?


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Re: What Software Engineering Process is best suited for Embedded Projects
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Can't even fully test hardware. You can only test to the fullest
of your abilities ;)


--
Thanks,
Frank Bemelman
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