What's the story with the "end of XP"?

I have led teams that used Linux (and other that have used QNX and Windows). I *did* get get improved productivity out of Linux as compared to Windows and the Linux developers *did* do a better job of meeting deadlines. Interestingly, the Window developers were faster at getting *something* up and running -- buggy but it did run -- when they used Visual Basic, but the Linux developers were far quicker to finish with a properly debugged product. When the Windows developers used Visual C++ with MFC, the first running version and the finished version both came in later than what I was seeing with Linux or QNX.

Disclaimer: The above is NOT what I call proof. It is only suggestive -- a single data point. The tasks were not identical and neither were the skill levels of the developers.

Reply to
Guy Macon
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It depends on what you want to do. Windows developers can be very productive indeed when using Visual Basic to do jobs that Visual Basic is well suited for. I specified a test rack a while back that had a simple job; talk to a GPIB card that runs a stack of voltmeters, etc., log the test results in a comma delimited text file, then feed it to an Excel spreadsheet and mail that to a manager in another city. Windows and Visual Basic worked just fine for that simple job, and the all-window IT dept. of that company will be able to suppor the test rack.

That being said, I usually specify Linux for test systems because of reliability and because there are far fewer "I have no idea why it does that" and "Hey! it just fixed itself! No, wait, it's broken again." moments.

Reply to
Guy Macon

Downgrade rights are only allowed under Software Assurance deals and certain Tier 1 OEM contracts. For retail and other OEM contracts you are stuck with what they shipped you.

erm some "embedded" systems running on PDP-11s have only just been chucked out and they were installed over 20 years ago. You still hear of stories about systems failing due to a PDP-11 which had been installed and working for so long that everyone had forgotten it existed failing.

-p

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"Unix is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are."
 - Anonymous
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Reply to
Paul Gotch

Been there dont that. Driver problems with Ubuntu and when you ask the community they say its MS fault and dont help you.

Reply to
The Real Andy

And linux never crashes?? Ha ha, that like listening to Mac users defending safari.

BTW: I have had windows crashes when i have written kernal mode drivers. I guess that is why MS is pushing people away from kernal mode drivers and forcing others to get certified.

Reply to
The Real Andy

Win95 did not require product activation. Nor did it rely on a constant stream of updates.

Reply to
larwe

No they don't. MS has nothing to do with Ubuntu.

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                        cbfalconer at maineline dot net
Reply to
CBFalconer

You've got me there. Developing Visual Basic programs to be run on Windows is probably best done in Windows. Doh. OTOH, Visual Basic really doesn't work well on HP-UX.

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Al Balmer
Sun City, AZ
Reply to
Al Balmer

Well, I wouldn't say never. Here's the system I'm connected to now:

dv4_/home/alanb => uptime 2:54pm up 393 days, 7:11, 14 users, load average: 1.19, 1.24, 1.22

(We took it down last year to add another drive.)

Last night, in the space of a couple of hours, I had Windows crash once, ("Windows explorer has encountered a problem and needs to close" or something like that) and just hang once. It might have recovered from the hang eventually, but I couldn't even get Task Manager up, so I killed the power after a few minutes. Of course, that's my new Vista Home Premium machine. When they get Vista to SP2, it will probably be better.

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Al Balmer
Sun City, AZ
Reply to
Al Balmer

I had such an enquiry about a machine tool in a factory that used a PDP-11/73 and wanted to know if I could fix the system (no fault description and sight unseen). I did suggest I design a new system for them...

--
Paul Carpenter          | paul@pcserviceselectronics.co.uk
    PC Services
              GNU H8 & mailing list info
             For those web sites you hate
Reply to
Paul Carpenter

Agreed re the first point. Disagreed re the second point - 'net security is a constantly moving target [1] so at least MS are being reactive.

[1] Unless, of course, it's done right in the first place. Which is why my servers run OpenBSD.

Steve

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Reply to
Steve at fivetrees

Strange comment [1]. I'm not a Linux expert, but I've been running OpenBSD on my Internet-facing servers since about '99. They've been superb. As far as I'm concerned, the OpenBSD developers set the gold standard. They are open source, and refuse to accept binary "blobs" - i.e. drivers they can't audit. That rules out a fair amount of inherently buggy hardware (nVidiaAdaptec)...

As for development under OpenBSD: it's standard stuff. If you depend on the developers of the OS to help you out of a bind, you're out of luck - they have better things to do. However: if you have a clue re "standard" C and "standard" TCP/IP, it's easy enough to help yourself. Bear in mind that what happens on the 'net, and within MS networking, is mostly some kind of derivation (or, in many cases, bastardisation) of BSD standards. To put it another way, the 'net is BSD-flavoured. Deal with it.

Bottom line is I'd *much* rather write code for OpenBSD than for Windows etc. It Just Works (tm). And it (probably [2]) has an indefinite lifetime.

[1] OTOH: perhaps it's not such a strange comment. One of my clients had an in-house developer who mostly worked alone. He was referred to as "the Linux guy", which was shorthand for "he does weird stuff". I had to refer to his code once for a new development. He had a main() with about 4000 lines (around 2000 of which were duplicates with different magic numbers/strings) and about 100 gotos. He'd gotten away with being an inept, undisciplined developer by claiming allegiance to a non-MS OS. Warning: beware of charlatans. [2] If you do have to update your code for OpenBSD, it's for a good, technical, non-marketing-oriented, reason which you'd be glad to embrace. Not sure I can say the same for Vista, which despite other comments in this thread, *does* require a complete rethink of hardware drivers. For us embedded guys, that's fairly relevant.

Steve

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Reply to
Steve at fivetrees

... snip ...

I have my doubts. Read the following URLs.

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                        cbfalconer at maineline dot net
Reply to
CBFalconer

Even if you have a choice as to whether to run Windows or HP-UX or Linux, there are some applications that Visual Basic is particularly well suited for. I am one of the biggest Linux advocates around, but that doesn't mean that Linux is best for

*every* application. In fact, DOS is often the best OS for embedded PCs. Not everthing needs an OS. Sometimes a simple program loader is what the job requires.
Reply to
Guy Macon

Remarkably, I've had very good support from key obsd developers (authors) during my porting efforts of isakmpd, ipsec and other obsd code to an embedded platform and even with some porting issues on sparc

4c; perhaps it depends on circumstances, their diurnal moods, etc.

Regards,

Michael

Reply to
msg

So do I. Actually I don't have any doubts - this MS thing, taking a whole DVD can only clog even the fastest hardware.

It takes them _minutes_ to boot; and the amount of disk digging is so enourmous I would bet they do some script processing reading/writing to disk on a per character basis without using any disk cacheing... Or may be it takes more than that, like 8 times disk r/w per character - which they probably think they don't do... If I turn off the DPS disk cache and do much scripting,[where the script is compiled into an intermediate file, then run and eventually the intermediate file deleted], things are still orders of magnitude faster. I have not played a lot with Linux but I have not seen it do any similar to MS amount of disk digging. In fact, I have never seen anything do any remotely comparable amount of disk digging like windows. Every time I have tried to use it (over the years) for some real work I have given up, it just is designed to waste my day into making me wait for it to torture the HDD. Five seconds now, ten seconds after that, whoops, now we'll do some swapping, this will take a minute or two - if we are back. What was I doing..? Ah, here we are - no, wait, MS is out for lunch with the HDD. Come back later, we now need to close. Good enough as a computerised TV-set (unless you want to switch channels all the time, old style TV-s are much better on that :-), nothing more.

Dimiter

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Reply to
Didi

... snip ...

AFAIAC that is one more of the Linux advantages. You don't have to load/use the bloated gui stuff. So you can have its i/o flexibility in a small package.

--
 
 
 
                        cbfalconer at maineline dot net
Reply to
CBFalconer

Net security on windows is easy if it is done right - you make sure there is a proper firewall between the PC and the net (i.e., a NAT router or a properly configured *nix box, or similar), and you tightly control the software running on the machine so that only safe programs run - that means no internet explorer, no outlook or outlook express, and no instant messengers, chat programs, p2p programs, etc.

When you need something that connects to the web, stick to reliable browsers like Opera or Firefox (they are not perfect, but are vastly better than IE - and they can be safely and easily updated as needed). If you must allow email, make sure it is externally scanned to remove executable files (not just those with known viruses), and that you use a (relatively) safe client.

Net security is best looked at pro-actively, not re-actively. Block everything coming in using a proper firewall - trying to get the latest windows updates to patch known holes is a never-ending battle.

Reply to
David Brown

Ok, this is the story. Buying a vista licence will allow you to run xp. There is conditions with versions, ie home etc are not included. If you want the real story, talk to your local rep. MS call it downgrading. Obviously after a certain time you cannot sell a shrink wrapped copy of XP, but you can still use XP. Talk to your rep.

Reply to
The Real Andy

You have missed the point.

Reply to
The Real Andy

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