I am designing a system that runs on WinXP, and perhaps later on XP Embedded. I now understand that Microsoft is going to stop selling XP on new PCs in Jan 2008. OK, but, does that mean the OS will no longer be available for licensing? For those who chose to buy it and install it anyway? How should one plan for such a product's lifecycle? (i.e. currently designed for XP and coded on .NET VS 2005).
And this is an "embedded" system? Embedded in what? Anyway, I'm sure you can get an OEM license for X number of copies now and put off the problem until you can migrate over to Vista (gasp, cough).
Jim
The way I get it, selling anything on which XP has been installed after 1.1.2008 will be illegal. But I am not a lawyer and just vaguely curious about the issue, to see how far will they be allowed to go. This is not about XP, it is about enforcing Vista which further limits the capabilities of computerised TV-sets (aka PCs).
I suspect MS will kindly suggest that you redesign your product to make it Vista compatible...
Going with the big guys has its disadvantages.
Dimiter
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ElderUberGeek wrote:
Microsoft will support (and sell) XP embedded until 2015 (at least). There is no release date as far as I know for a Vista embedded.
Because of the fairly adverse reaction to Vista (first time ever that Dell has been forced by the market to offer an older Windows OS on new machines) I would not be surprised if XP goes on way past Jan 2008.
If you are using XP embedded into a system or equipment it makes good sense to use the embedded version if you can - although I can tell you from bitter experience that switching from the standard to embedded version can involve a good deal of work.
Michael Kellett
Are these for customer PC systems (unknown OS) or do you sell the OS with the system ? MS cannot cease supply of older OS, but they can make it harder to obtain, and I think their main focus are the expected a) Push up sales of the newest OS b) Reduce staff who support older OS
Dell I believe still offers XP on new PCs, even going backwards to do so.
Here in NZ, MS got their knuckles rapped a few years ago, when they tried to stop supply of older OS. The court ruled they had to contime to supply OS that would work on older PCs, (but they can charge std prices for it).
To NOT do this is very bad PR for MS, as they put themselves right in the crosshairs for creating significant waste flows
ie they can move an OS off 'Active support' but they cannot remove them from 'available'.
-jg
A kiosk, a ticket machine, a weather station, a photo booth, a POS terminal, etc, etc.
There are thousands of "embedded" systems running XP, Win2000, Win98, and even *cough* Win95. It's probably the quickest and easiest way to implement a system that needs a big cheap user interface.
Without getting into a dialog of the "properness" of desktop windows as a embedded platform, the fact still remains that it's a quick way to ship product that can have a high level of functionality without making a major investment in engineering resources.
I know, but the term "Embedded PC" always seemed a bit like "Rap Music" to me. ;)
Jim
I've worked with component insertion machines that embedded a full-fledged Unix. They were very good at data collecting and reporting.
-- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ
One IT guy told me that Microsoft license for their newest OS allows to use their previous OS-es of similar grade. I.e. by purchasing WinXp Pro one can legally use Win2k Pro and this goes back to MS-DOS.
If this is true, you can purchase Vista Pro license and install XP instead.
As someone mentioned, XP is still going to be here for another 8 years. That is still more than some embedded system currently in development will be.
-- Roman
I suspect Win XP will be available on the likes of ebay for many years to come. I noticed a couple of copies of Win95 on there a couple of days ago ! I think I heard somewhere that XP will be supported until 2011 although no longer sold.
Unless you are doing very strange things I suspect your app will work under Vista. I have 3 programs I have written that all work under Vista no problem.
... snip ...
Try Linux. Free, and you get full source. No tricks. Quicker, easier, more reliable, and the life is up to you.
--
cbfalconer at maineline dot net
Obviously this sounds reasonable; but it is not the way I got it reported by the BBC (I either read it on their website or heard it on their worldservice radio, it was a few months ago). What I read or heard stated clearly that installing XP on newly sold PCs after 1.1.2008 will be illegal. They could have been wrong, of course, but so far I have not had many chances to catch them in error.
Oh of course this is quite likely. If I had to bet which human quality is prevalent among 95+% of the population my safety choice would be "fear of straying from the flock".... :-)
Dimiter
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You're not selling a PC, you're selling an embedded system.
Rene
Thats what all the linux guys say. Just try and get something productive out of them whilst working them to a deadline. Good luck.
Given the fact that there is a service pack 3 on the MS roadmap (due next year IIRC) i dare say the support will be around for some time yet. The standard support lifecycle is about 5 years IIRC with an additional 10years self support. After that you are on your own.
As for it being illegal to install on new systems after support is dropped i have never heard of. As suggested elsewhere I was always under the assumption the purchasing a licence of latest equivelent version (ie Vista for XP or Server 2008 for Server 2003 etc) would cover you. If this is the case I would like to see it cited somewhere. If I remember tomorrow I will try bounce this question of one of our legal guys as I am pretty sure they share a pretty close realtionship with MS.
BUT, after all that is said, if you dont need the embedded version then you should really be developing for vista now. If you dont, you are already putting yourself behind the current lifecycle. The support is there now, and 'Directions On Microsoft' is suggesting that Vista SP1 might be shipped this year. If you are already developing on .Net
2.0 (are you?) and using VS2005 then the migration to Vista is relatively straight foward.
For a "fine" example of an embedded version of MS SW (in a public phone) see these pictures, taken in Epcot a couple of years back:
Kind regards, Johan Borkhuis
Good luck proving the difference in court or elsewhere. If it runs MS, it _is_ a PC, whether embedded or not, this is a (sad) fact of life.
Dimiter
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... snip ...
Oh? Try installing Ubuntu. Then wipe it out and install XP. Good luck. I gather you have had success getting Microsoft to release source code or make modifications. I also gather that the EULA is totally acceptable to you and your customers. Hint: Vista is worse.
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cbfalconer at maineline dot net
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Read the EULA. Read the following links.
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cbfalconer at maineline dot net
Why would coding for Linux be less productive than coding for Windows?
-- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ
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