what's a callback?

The hardware struggles to keep up with the bloat of Windows. My current PC has roughly a thousand times more compute power than my first DOS machine, boots in about 20x the time, and crashes maybe 10x as often. That's progress?

Well, my stuff starts up instantly and runs 24/7 for decades without crashing. The sources are more comment than code, so maintenance is easy.

Every Windows source module has a mandatory header, that's supposed to document the function, the author, and the revs. A typical module will have some gibberish name, and in the header section called "Module Function" the author generally fills in something like (I quote) "what it says".

Comments are rare and, when they do exist, are often useless or obscene.

That's because the Windows paradigm was kluged up in a hurry, and got worse from then on. Decades before Windows has cobbled up, real, solid, multiuser, bulletproof OSs had been running for years... literally running without crashing for years. DECs OSs used an event flag structure that made programs, basicly, into synchronous state machines; Windows uses an event-driven architecture that makes programs into asynchronus-logic hairballs.

The irony is that both Windows and the x86 architecture were designed entirely out of the mainstream of computing.

Well, that says it all. My products don't crash because I don't allow them to. But then, I'm not getting rich off forced upgrades like certain parties I could name. The only thing Windows does well is make money; that's all it was intended to do.

John

Reply to
John Larkin
Loading thread data ...

Some of the people at Microsoft write very ggod books about writing software, or managing large software projects.

I guess no one has any time to read or be trained.

Reply to
Richard Henry

I have been involved in the past with serious efforts to replace aircraft mechanical instruments with computer displays. If the OS crashes, people die.

No Windows need apply.

Reply to
Richard Henry

One of my customers builds jet engines and their control computers. An engine control computer is a suitcase-looking thing that's just under the cowling, exposed to the altitude and temperature and all. They run the jet fuel through the computer before they burn it, to moderate the computer's temperature. They program bare-metal because they can't trust any available OS. I think they are looking at QNX or Wind River or something, but no deployment so far. All their test cell stuff is Unix or lately Linux with VME i/o. They laugh at Windows.

In my company, most of our test racks run DOS.

John

Reply to
John Larkin
[...]

Mechanical instruments have serious problems of their own, and "glass cockpits" are slowly moving down to general aviation. One of the best approaches is redundant systems, but they can have bizarre failure modes of their own. Here is an analysis from Risks Digest on the Airbus fly-by-wire:

"According to Airbus Industrie, there are several ways in which the exchange of data and/or a problem in one computer can affect the other computer. Often the computers reset themselves after a few seconds but occasionally a fault results in repetitive resets or attempts to resynchronise. The fifth reset relatches the computer, which will not recover without a power interrupt. Reset breakers for manual power interrupts are on the flight deck overhead panel. Dual resets occur when both FMGECs encounter failures at the same time. They generally occur after a pilot entry that involves use of the navigation database or to an event synchronised between both flight management systems. Latched double failures usually occur if pilots successively perform three inputs that cause a reset, or if an `impossible' computation of predictions occurs."

formatting link

Sounds a bit like Windows:)

Best,

Mike Monett

Reply to
Mike Monett
[...]

John,

I run DOS also and often need more than the 640k of base ram. Extended memory is terribly slow if you have to go through Himem, but you can bypass Himem and use flat mode which is much faster. It is compatible with DOS real mode code, and it avoids the speed and reliability issues of Protected mode.

One of the problems with flat mode is debugging code that addresses memory above 1 meg. The solution is a small tsr that allows you to view arrays and data anywhere in memory. Four markers are provided that can be set by your code so you can see if data is transferred properly to and from extended memory. Here's the url:

formatting link

Best,

Mike Monett

Reply to
Mike Monett

If you believe that statement, you're posting to the wrong newsgroup.

They may well indeed not be stupid, but having the wrong mind-set, values, or whatever is applicable.

Reply to
Everett M. Greene

Actually one of the major problems with the Windows OS is that so many Computer Science and bussiness manager types write it. They honestly believe that grandma being able to use the computer is more important than the fact that some computer expert will complain about a 20X wait for his computer to boot. Personally I'd like a nice clean interface that doesn't use the hard disk drive at all something along the lines of the old Commodore sytem where the OS is all in ROM, though probably better make it flash RAM or some such for the PC. I've thought of trying to develop a board that would use the standard ATA interface and could save the OS to a memory set but I'm just a computer programmer with some EET.

Charles

Reply to
Charles W. Johson Jr.

"John Larkin" schreef in bericht news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com...

Sure it is. Boot time as a measure of quality is ridiculous. I boot once a day, sometimes perhaps twice, when Protel is playing up. The other day you hooked up that $79 usb microscope, that's progress.

My embedded stuff doesn't crash either, it would hardly know how to do that.

learnt

All I remember from DEC is that PDP11/03 that gave me sore knees, pulling the boards in & out to keep it going. RT11 OS if I remember well. What a piece of shit was that ;)

You should not compare your embedded stuff with de desktop computer running windows. Those are two entirely different species. Your 68K does only one thing - easy. If I plug your software in whatever 68K board, nothing happens, nada, zip. These are projects that can be done by just one or two persons, that's why I said it is kindergarten stuff compared to windows.

Imagine you had to deliver some kind of open system, where 3rd parties plug in their boards & drivers in your box. Would you like that? Can you still guarantee your product doesn't crash?

--
Thanks, Frank.
(remove 'q' and 'invalid' when replying by email)
Reply to
Frank Bemelman

"Richard Henry" schreef in bericht news:YmZyd.3706$yW5.2601@fed1read02...

learnt

stuff,

sometimes,

You would be crazy to even try using windows in such an environment. I would not set one foot on a plane if I knew it was run by windows software. Software running on the average desktop computer is less critical.

--
Thanks, Frank.
(remove 'q' and 'invalid' when replying by email)
Reply to
Frank Bemelman

"Charles W. Johson Jr." schreef in bericht news:cA_yd.9141$ snipped-for-privacy@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...

believe

fact

to

where

such

a

Grandma *is* more important. Complaining about a 20x boot time is nonsense. How many times do you boot? I turn on my computer each morning, get a coffee, turn on the radio and see what's in my inbox.

Windows takes a lot of time to boot, because it checks a lot of things during the boot. Depending on what you installed on top of it, it may take a while longer. In a network, it takes another extra amount of time, getting a new IP address perhaps, making connections to other PC's that were part of the game the day before. Yes, that takes a bit of time.

As a result, you can swap hardware, or put your entire drive in a new PC and it will work. Windows will discard old drivers for hardware that has dissapeared and try to find new drivers for the new hardware. That is incredibly impressive.

--
Thanks, Frank.
(remove 'q' and 'invalid' when replying by email)
Reply to
Frank Bemelman

Microsoft didn't invent loadable drivers (hell, they barely *have* loadable drivers) or 3rd party hardware or documented APIs. They just stole others ideas, played catch-up by pre-announcing their products years ahead of availability, turned out bug-ridden crap, charged everybody to fix it, and ruthlessly and illegally leveraged the OS to kill off the people whose ideas they stole.

Microsoft recently announced another ripoff of somebody else's market and product, bundling it with the OS, thus killing the company that pioneered the concept. When Bill was asked how the victim company could possibly survive, he said that they should "learn to innovate."

John

Reply to
John Larkin

I started on a DEC PDP-8/L with 4K of core memory. Due to a never- determined hardware problem, the FOCAL interpreter was often damaged and had to be reloaded from paper tape. We would key in the boot loader using the front panel toggle switches, then start the tape, which took approximately 20 minutes to load. Someone had to babysit the paper tape as it spooled out, keeping it in a nice fanfold so it wouldn't tangle.

So, yes, a three-minute startup is fine with me.

--Gene

Reply to
Gene S. Berkowitz

I had a high-speed paper tape reader, so it wasn't bad. And Focal seemed to be very reliable... I could run apps for weeks without reloading. I got a lot of mileage out of Focal-11, too; I actually contributed the random number generator to Rick Merrill (I did a pseudorandom xor shift register in software, replacing his classic old modulo code) and got acknowledged in the source code.

But it's not very fair to compare 35-year old iron running at 1 MHz to modern stuff. But I recall loading Focal-11 from high-speed paper tape in about the same time as my Windows boots today. I could load it from magtape in a second or two.

John

Reply to
John Larkin

"John Larkin" schreef in bericht news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com...

nonsense.

while

new

the

I agree that their business codes are nothing to be proud off. Well, they got a nice fine from the EU.

formatting link

Still, peanuts for Bill. Perhaps the US government should squeeze a bit more money out of Bill ;)

Maybe that is what really bothers you, their attitude. Their products are not too bad though (anything after WIN3.x, that is).

--
Thanks, Frank.
(remove 'q' and 'invalid' when replying by email)
Reply to
Frank Bemelman

"Gene S. Berkowitz" schreef in bericht news: snipped-for-privacy@news.comcast.giganews.com...

in

computer

hard

the

just

nonsense.

while

new

the

Ah, I once saw that about 30 years ago, on a sales show. The sales person fiddling with the toggle switches for a minute perhaps, to start the bootloader and after that some moonlander game was started. At the time it was very impressive. Only a few years later I got my apple ][. Costed me an arm and a leg. Never regretted it. Didn't crash either, it just hang ;) Loved that name of the 16 bit emulator, sweet16.

Those were the days - but I would't want to back.

--
Thanks, Frank.
(remove 'q' and 'invalid' when replying by email)
Reply to
Frank Bemelman

How many grannies can run RegEdit? Or change their IP address? Or set IE to its non-default (ie, somewhat secure) settings?

Changing from modem to DSL, or setting up your internet stuff, on a Mac is stunning; you just do the obvious stuff, and it's all obvious.

My next-door neighbow is a sweet gay guy with zero technical competance; naturally, he's a Mac person. When I got my DSL, we drilled a hole through our walls and ran a Cat5 from my hub to his iMac. He clicked a few times, typed in his new IP, and was online in a couple of minutes. It took me, a programmer and EE, about an hour to persuade Windows to do the same thing. I used his Mac to go to my provider's web site to read the Windows procedures.

John

Reply to
John Larkin

No, a Win PC with some decent apps is a enormously useful productivity tool. I just wish, from an engineering point of view, that it wasn't such a crappy implementation, and from an ethics point of view, that they weren't such greedy, vicious bastards. They have fifty billion dollars, in cash, more than they can ever use; what they are about now is power.

John

Reply to
John Larkin

"John Larkin" schreef in bericht news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com...

hold.

every

that

assembler

indeed

learnt

sometimes,

believe

fact

to

Ah, you can be really entertaining at times. Keep those stories coming! You seem to have a lot in common with your neighbour, except being gay ;)

--
Thanks, Frank.
(remove 'q' and 'invalid' when replying by email)
Reply to
Frank Bemelman

Well, he *does* let me borrow his chainsaw.

John

Reply to
John Larkin

ElectronDepot website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.