[VERY OT] Is everybody here over 35? If not, do you know what Usenet is?

Yup, that was the case 20 years ago, makes not a hoot of difference now.

In message , The Real Andy writes

Ever... .From what I understand there will me more electronics and software in cars. Not less. Added to which the change to electric and hybrid cars means it will be impossible to find a car that is not controlled by software. Motorcycles too.

Actually you have lower costs in card with more software. They are more fuel efficient and wear tyres less etc. They will be able to make servicing more efficient . Longer time between services and better monitoring of systems

In message , The Real Andy writes

It makes more difference now. The band width may be higher but usage has multiplied faster. IF the whole world switched to plain asciii instead of HTML . the usage would drop dramatically. Severs would have far more space and the whole system would speed up

That's not entirely far from truth :) I'd say Usenet is the (last remaining) web place where professionals and generally intelligent people hang out.

In Estonia the last remaining public Usenet server was closed a month ago due to low usage (traffic to our once busy groups has completely dried out over 3-4 years). It took me a week to find nntp.aioe.org.

-- Tarmo

That's not entirely far from truth :) I'd say Usenet is the (last remaining) web place where professionals and generally intelligent people hang out.

In Estonia the last remaining public Usenet server was closed a month ago due to low usage (traffic to our once busy groups has completely dried out over 3-4 years). It took me a week to find nntp.aioe.org.

-- Tarmo

Sadly that is not true. In some NG's there is a lot more noise than signal.

The problem is most of the newer members, since the "interweb" started, only understand web based forums, google and Yahoo groups.

I mean "Interweb" many have no idea that the Internet can do things other then the web and actualy refer to it as the Interweb.

I've bought a new car. In 1997. No central lock, no electric windows, no automatic this, that and the other thing. Breakdown problems in all those 11 years: Zero, nada, zilch. Not even a light bulb.

If you look long and hard and do your homework on the web it is possible to find the ones with the least amount of electronics in there. That's what I did. Then, I asked about the cost of extended warranty. Of course I did not take it but usually this Dollar number is inversely proportionate to the quality of the product.

Yeah, that is the trend society follows. Here in the US there are already a lot of people who simply cannot cook and who don't have any intention to learn it. IOW some of the basic skills fall by the wayside and goes for technology, the Internet, life in general. Not only in Estonia ;-)

In message , Joerg writes

Fairly soon they are going to have to learn... The US is in an "interesting" shape.

Inevitable! The poor cannot afford the ingredients for cookery - McDonald's is cheaper (especially if you don't have the cash to invest in a week's worth of groceries at a time), and pre-made. The rich have servants and/or restaurants.

Only the middle class have the wherewithal and the incentive to cook, and the middle class is being squeezed (asymmetrically) into the adjacent poor and rich classes.

Another noticeable event - complete agreement between Chris H and myself. The millenium has arrived. :-)

I suggest you publicize the following list in your area:

Some free news servers. I use motzarella and gmane. (1 time charge) (free) (free) (free) (free) (free) (via://dotsrc.org/usenet/)(free) (mail-lists via news) (free) (pay)

Thanks for the advice.

Do these two have decent spam filters? People often complain about the spam in this group but I never see it, it would be nice for this to continue. I will give them a try.

:-)

I will try not to let it happen again.

Nah, that's an illusion many people indulge in. "Oh, their hamburger is only 99c" or whatever. By the time the kids have their salads, fries, soft drinks, desserts and such the whole family is often out $25-$30. We can whip up a nice meal for five on the barbeque for a lot less.

People must re-learn to save. Not for a big screen TV (which they all seem to have no matter what the poverty level ...) but for next week's groceries. Then you can buy on sale.

Our church doles out excellent ingredients every Tuesday. All that people have to do is show up. Sans money. Those with handicaps just need to call and we'll drive it over there.

By complacency, IMHO. Cooking is easy, I learned that all by myself. Lo and behold my meals budget was lower than of those students who ate at the university cantina every day. And my dinners tasted a lot better.

I know for a fact that many people don't have a week's grocery money for a very simple reason: They think that in this society you absolutely have to stop at the coffee chain every morning. Coffee for two, a pastry or two -> $8/day -> $160/mo. You can buy a trunkload of groceries for that money. If still not enough ditch that $50/mo cable TV service (we have none) and that $99/mo cell phone family plan (I have a pre-pay at $5/mo). Oh, and the $100/mo gym membership can be replaced with hiking and other exercises. It's not that we couldn't afford it but it just ain't necessary.

Filter out posts from the Google domain. That dropped the spam I see on my server from nasty to almost zero.

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Actually it hasn't. I don't consider space for 'severs' to be important. I misread your message as dealing with 'servers'. :-)

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Check. Retirement on a fixed income makes you quite aware of these petty details.

Perhaps you missed the "especially" part. Try reading "Nickel and Dimed: On (Not) Getting By in America" by Barbara Ehrenreich, and then try talking to some people who actually live that dream life.

A large number of people living on minimum wage literally live day to day. They don't get together enough money for a week's groceries at a time. Even if they did, they are probably working two or more jobs and don't have time to prepare anything more than adding boiling water 35c pot noodles. And many of these people don't have access to cooking facilities beyond what you might find in a hotel room.