STMICROELECTRONICS YET AGAIN AND THIS IS UNBELIEVABLE, UNTENABLE AND HARD TO BELIEVE.

Big companies are not democracies. I suspect STM has a strictly regulated list of people who are allowed to respond to outside input. You might get a better response by searching out a bar where their engineers hang out after work.

Mark Borgerson

I needed something off their site this morning. It was annoying, but not impossible. Enough that if I have a rich choice of alternatives I won't be choosing STM -- but they never seem to have just what I want, anyway.

With careful use of Google and Digikey's data links, you can almost entirely avoid ST's unfortunate experiment :)

-jg

If STM reads this thread, they will conclude that no one is really interested.

The really sad thing about this is that ST have some really good stuff (my main interest is with ARM microcontrollers). I spoke to my disti about it and they agreed (how could they not) that the new web site is truly dreadful. It will take time but if ST hear enough moans or lose enough business it will change.

Having said that - can anyone point to a micro manufacturer with a really good website ? (Atmel, TI/Luminary and NXP are all nearly as bad as the new ST).

Michael Kellett

ew

? TI we rate here as very good. Maxim is also good.

NXP are trying to improve theirs.

OnSemi is a very good example of 'No-mans-land syndrome", where the lowest level pages are good, and the top level is good, but the jump between the two is clunky, and works best if you know already what you want by part code. Often what you need to search on, is simply missing from their choices, and if it is, many tables are incomplete..

The better websites also let you sort by price.

-jg

ew

Microchip's is quite good which is just as well, given their vast product range.

Leon

What they should conclude based on the comments here is that people have a number of choices and if ST make information difficult to access then people will just go elsewhere.

In other words ST (if you are reading), people may not be interested simply because in a number of cases they don't _have_ to do business with you.

ST are not Microsoft or Google: people actually have other equally valid choices from companies who sell products with the same compatible functionality.

Now, having said that, I would still be interested in seeing what the letter said and if you post it here, someone within ST might actually get it to someone who will actually read it.

Simon.

Personally, I like Luminary's old site (luminarymicro.com) much better than TI's corresponding pages. The only downside was that you had to register to download some things.

-a

Well, Simon, my friend sent the letter out to over 21 people again and, as usual, with 'return receipt requested and again, no response whatsoever. Over 21 people and not one could even return a receipt as read, much less reply. If I were in-charge, heads would roll.

Here is the letter and please let me have your feedback:

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: EXTREMELY SERIOUS PROBLEMS WITH YOUR WEBSITE! Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 22:01:15 -0600 From: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To: snipped-for-privacy@st.com, snipped-for-privacy@st.com, snipped-for-privacy@st.com, snipped-for-privacy@st.com, snipped-for-privacy@st.com, snipped-for-privacy@st.com, snipped-for-privacy@st.com, snipped-for-privacy@st.com, snipped-for-privacy@st.com, snipped-for-privacy@st.com, snipped-for-privacy@st.com, snipped-for-privacy@st.com, snipped-for-privacy@st.com, snipped-for-privacy@st.com, snipped-for-privacy@st.com, snipped-for-privacy@st.com, snipped-for-privacy@st.com, snipped-for-privacy@st.com, snipped-for-privacy@st.com, snipped-for-privacy@st.com

First, let me apologize for such a mailing to so many people employed by STM. However, the necessity of this indicates how extremely difficult it is to contact ST.

The website of STM is unusable. Many folks agree with this.

We were wanting information and files of the Arm Cortex M3 but we are also trying to go to the 'contact' page of your website and even it is faulty.

I will be emailing Carlo Bozotti with a copy of this as I feel that STM is not aware of just how defective it really is.

Contained herewith, is just a very sparse sampling of comments with regards to your website. These can be verified in the Internet Newsgroup section of 'comp.arch.embedded':

Does anyone else find that STMs web site on Cortex M3 beyond abysmal? There are major problems with it and I even emailed them asking for some directions on navigating their site ( 3 times) and I have yet to receive a response.

I would appreciate any input about this.

Thank you. Name and email address withheld.

Recently they changed it all over to flash and now it is absolutely appalling. Name and email address withheld.

My input is that I thought "to hell with that" and went and bought a Atmel board instead.

If you look around at various web forums, you will see a lot of complaints about the new website. Name and email address withheld.

I didn't think it could be THAT bad. I was wrong.

By the way, what browser should I use? It doesn't work with FireFox, Chrome, or Internet Explorer. Name and email address withheld.

You need Flash installed to use the ST website now which is something I refuse to install for just one website as I do not need it for the rest of my online activities.

As well as the fact I've found Flash based websites to be bloated and slow, especially when you try browsing them from a mobile Internet connection which I do a good portion of the time, I also refuse to open my machines to a major source of malware (given Flash's security history).

BTW, someone mentioned when I posted about this new website a month or two ago that Google don't index Flash based websites. I wonder if ST have considered that... Name and email address withheld.

Just on the CM3? I now find the entire STM site so entirely unusable that I'm buying other people's parts just to avoid the horrors of having to dig them for datasheets. Name and email address withheld.

You could search it on Doglike, they have links to the data sheets.

Sometimes it helps trying to write to the CEO about bad web design. Usually they don't know how many orders they lose because of such a website, maybe because the presentation of the designer looks great, but they didn't try to use it as an engineer.

Last year the website was usable, but now the Flash animation is of the size of a postage stamp on my wide screen display (you can see 5 lines of a product family in a scrollable table, and more than half of the screen is empty) and the usual web navigation, like open a link in another window, doesn't work and in Linux it doesn't work at all (Opera can show the Flash animation).

I wonder why they waste money on Flash animations for engineers, instead of using it for a functional website like Doglike. But of course, STM micro controllers and other products are nice. Name and email address withheld.

Too many managers with too little to do. Name and email address withheld.

Thank you and may I expect to hear from you as to corrective action? We really like your products.

xxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

NNNN

(Unrelated to the main point discussed here,) I always set my mail readers to never return a receipt. I don't see receipt requests at all. I assume most sane people would do the same...

-- Roberto Waltman

First off, I am not sane. Second, it really doesn't matter as they should reply regardless.

Joe

The F18 is a non-mainstream processor, but I have nothing to comment on the website of greenarrays

(But it is a small website, so navigating would not be a trouble anyway.)

Groetjes Albert

--

The letter seems reasonable and I think you have now done about all you can do.

About the only extra thing I would have done would be to have also extracted comments from ST's own forum and included them as well. They may have attached more weight to comments which come from multiple locations, especially when one of those locations is their own support forum.

Simon.

Same here.

I wasn't aware that there was anybody out there who did send receipts.

Only those in poor setups and do it within corporate/education establishments and then expect everybody in the world to do it.

Thanks, Simon. I had thought of that but really, there a large amount of errata on their pages.

They still have not replied. I don't get it.

Joe

p.s. Has anyone gotten the STM Discovery kit to communicate with their p.c.?

Two things:

1. The more people you copy, the less likely any one person is to respond.
2. There is probably some internal discussion of the points in your letter, but I wouldn't expect a reply until there is agreement on what changes will be made. They aren't going to discuss their problems in public unless they have decided on a change. Even if they decide to make appropriate changes, they might still not send a response.

ly

new

I'll second the vote for TI. In fact, in most ways I think TI is the example that others should try to follow. That's not to say they are perfect, but I usually can find the info I want without too much trouble at the TI web site. The main shortcoming of most sites is the lack of middle layer information. I don't just want a tree structure to find a given product, I want real information about the common elements of products at each branch of the tree. And please don't tell me categories like "Entertainment" or "Automotive" without telling me what feature of the devices makes it suitable for those categories. It is absurd to make me search across two or more broad areas of the site to look for the same type of product!

And for goodness sakes, don't present your information in a format that I can't view with my browser!!! I'd like to shoot the guy that invented or maybe the guy who is promoting Flash!

Rick