start whit micro

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hi
I want to start with the micro, can you suggest some things
I think to arduino uno starter kit It's a good idea or not
thanks and bye

Re: start whit micro
On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 13:15:11 +0100, Silvanononvalevoleciccioli

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The Arduino is a reasonable starting place. It has a lot of users
around the world and many, many "shields" (add-on cards) for more
functions.

You'll eventually want to get to working with a bare microcontroller,
where you will take care of setting up things like clocks and
peripheral registers --  where it's just you, the user manual, and the
chip. But an Arduino is a fairly painless introduction.

Re: start whit micro
Hi Silvano(?)

Am 18.03.2013 13:15, schrieb Silvanononvalevoleciccioli:
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"mbed" [ http://www.mbed.org ]

Would be another option...
* No need for dedicated toolchains but standard C (or even C++) programming.
* More than one architecture/manufacturer available with the same
(eco-)system.

HTH. Salut, J"org

the Arduino language?
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    [Cross-posting to news:comp.lang.c.]

 >> I want to start with the micro, can you suggest some things I think
 >> to arduino uno starter kit It's a good idea or not thanks and bye

 > "mbed" [ http://www.mbed.org ] Would be another option...

 > * No need for dedicated toolchains but standard C (or even C++)
 > programming.

    Indeed, I've just discovered that they use a specific "Arduino"
    (e. g., [1]) language for the "sketches."

    The question is: how this language is different from C (it
    surely looks "C-like" enough), and is there any reason to prefer
    it over the latter, even if only for 8-bit AVR programming?

    TIA.

[1] https://github.com/languages/Arduino

[...]

--  
FSF associate member #7257

Re: the Arduino language?


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I looked at this recently (http://arduino.cc/en/Reference/HomePage). Any  
resemblance to C is purely superficial (there don't seem to be any user  
functions for example). And in the implementation I saw, it just got  
converted to C behind the scenes (where I believe gcc was then used to  
compile to machine instructions).

If you know C then just use that instead, if you can figure out how to use  
the tools.

--  
Bartc  


Re: the Arduino language?
BartC wrote:
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I noticed yesterday that Atmel Studio 6.1 can create
a project for an Arduino Due/X board.

Re: the Arduino language?

[...]

 >>> * No need for dedicated toolchains but standard C (or even C++)
 >>> programming.

 >> Indeed, I've just discovered that they use a specific "Arduino"
 >> (e. g., [1]) language for the "sketches."

 >> The question is: how this language is different from C (it surely
 >> looks "C-like" enough), and is there any reason to prefer it over
 >> the latter, even if only for 8-bit AVR programming?

 > I looked at this recently (http://arduino.cc/en/Reference/HomePage).
 > Any resemblance to C is purely superficial (there don't seem to be
 > any user functions for example).  And in the implementation I saw, it
 > just got converted to C behind the scenes (where I believe gcc was
 > then used to compile to machine instructions).

    Well, as I was able to figure out, it /is/ indeed converted to
    C++.  The conversion is (as per Arduino.mk from [2], which is
    itself derived from [3]):

# the ino -> cpp -> o file
$(OBJDIR)/%.cpp: %.ino
    $(ECHO) '#include <Arduino.h>' > $@
    $(CAT)  $< >> $@

    Naturally, Arduino.mk also makes sure that a number of include
    directories are added to the search path, and that a number of
    libraries are compiled and linked into the resulting binary.

[2] http://packages.debian.org/wheezy/arduino-mk
[3] http://mjo.tc/atelier/2009/02/arduino-cli.html

 > If you know C then just use that instead, if you can figure out how
 > to use the tools.

    ... When last year I've ordered my Arduino Uno board (which I
    haven't found much use to this day), it made me wonder, who'd
    need that 32 KiB program memory ATmega328P MCU?  Now, I've tried
    to build this simply-looking 540-line code [4] (with -Os and
    -mmcu=atmega8, = 8 KiB) and got the following from the linker:

/usr/lib/gcc/avr/4.7.0/../../../avr/bin/ld: ArduinoISP section `.text' will not
fit in region `text'
/usr/lib/gcc/avr/4.7.0/../../../avr/bin/ld: region `text' overflowed by 7112
bytes
collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status
make: *** [ArduinoISP] Error 1

    I understand that there may be certain advantage in using the
    libraries they supply.  But somehow, I feel that I should try
    rewriting this particular piece of code in C, with AVR Libc as
    the only library used...

[4] https://github.com/rsbohn/ArduinoISP/blob/master/ArduinoISP/ArduinoISP.ino

--  
FSF associate member #7257

Re: the Arduino language?
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I've been using an Arduino Due (Cortex M0) for prototyping purposes:

1. The board is cheap enough for a 1-off compared with the time of messing
about with the toolchain.  Untar toolchain, run ./arduino, select example
code, press download button, board is programmed.  It's that
straightforward.

2. The documentation often says things like 'Arduino ...' when it actually
means 'AVR Arduino ...'.  The documentation for Due is very patchy.  I've
had to do rather more googling and making random guesses than I would like.


While I /can/ go bare metal on it, it's not worth the extra time involved.  
I'm shipping exactly one unit of this thing, so time is the major factor
here.  I've done some fairly complex things (multiplexed LEDs hung off timer
interrupts) in a few lines of code.

Theo

Re: the Arduino language?

 >> I understand that there may be certain advantage in using the
 >> libraries they supply.  But somehow, I feel that I should try
 >> rewriting this particular piece of code in C, with AVR Libc as the
 >> only library used...

    (I've used the "plain C" AVRUSB500 firmware instead.)

 > I've been using an Arduino Due (Cortex M0) for prototyping purposes:

    First of all, ARM-based boards seem like a different league.  To
    drive, say, an ATmega8, in PDIP, placed on a breadboard, one'd
    need only a resistor and a button (for the /Reset line; and even
    these are optional.)  It isn't that simple for ARM's.

 > 1. The board is cheap enough for a 1-off compared with the time of
 > messing about with the toolchain.  Untar toolchain,

    But then, doesn't every other contemporary OS include some kind
    of package management software?  Thus making downloading and
    installing GCC (whether AVR, ARM, "native," or some other
    variety) essentially a "single-click" operation.  (The same
    applies to the Arduino IDE, though.)

 > run ./arduino, select example code, press download button, board is
 > programmed.  It's that straightforward.

 > 2. The documentation often says things like 'Arduino ...' when it
 > actually means 'AVR Arduino ...'.  The documentation for Due is very
 > patchy.  I've had to do rather more googling and making random
 > guesses than I would like.

    My understanding is that the Arduino project relies heavily on
    the community for the documentation, etc.  It may thus be
    beneficial to edit their Wiki pages as you go.

 > While I /can/ go bare metal on it, it's not worth the extra time
 > involved.

    I tend to agree, as long as the ARM variety is considered.

 > I'm shipping exactly one unit of this thing, so time is the major
 > factor here.  I've done some fairly complex things (multiplexed LEDs
 > hung off timer interrupts) in a few lines of code.

    Well, the point of my question was: could someone please share
    such "complex things in a few lines of Arduino code" examples?

    TIA.

--  
FSF associate member #7257    np. Epilogue (Relief) -- Apocalyptica

Re: the Arduino language?
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It's not the installing that matters, it's writing your first program and
making it do something on your board.  The Arduino environment targets
particular boards, and there's a repository of example programs supplied so
you run them and they just work.  No hunting for the right header files or
the right compile options, or reading random blogs looking for examples.

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I'm not really confident enough about that - I've got things working, but
am not knowledgeable of the details to write a manual about them.

I've run into a few painful things too.  For example, the IDE isn't really
designed to cope with more than one source file.  Ditching the IDE turns out
to be nontrivial - I found a Makefile on the web, and eventually got it to
compile (library issues).  But the binary I have is different from the one
output from the IDE, and my binary sits there doing nothing.  Even for a
trivial LED blink program.

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OK, here's my fading LED mux example.  Complicated by the fact that I'm
using HSV rather than RGB to set the colour so I have to convert between the
two.  I have a string of 7 tri-colour LEDs with each LED with individual
colour control.  There are three common cathodes for each colour and one
anode per LED, as I needed to minimise the wiring (10 pins).  I'm using the
Arduino PWM to set the dimming of the cathodes, and then muxing the anodes
using a routine driven by an interrupt.  I'm using a third-party timer
library to get timer interrupts on the Due (not sure the standard library
does this yet) and a third-party PWM library because the default PWM
frequency is 1KHz which beats with my interrupt rate and makes the LEDs
flicker.  In the standard library you set the PWM duty cycle of a pin with
something like
 analogWrite(pin, duty=0 to 255)

I've substantially refactored the code since and merged with a bigger
project, this is my previous version.  The motivation is that the LED fading
now happens entirely under interrupts - the foreground task is oblivious
they're happening.  This was about three more lines of code.

So you know where to start, setup() and loop() are the two entry points in
an Arduino sketch.

Theo



#include <ARMtimer.h>  // third party timer library
#include "pwm01.h"

volatile void ledSwitch();

#define LEDS 7
// run system PWM at 20KHz
#define PWMFREQ1 20000

typedef struct {
   int r;
   int g;
   int b;
} Colour;

Colour ledColour[LEDS];

// pin numbering
int anode[LEDS] = {12, 5, 4, 3, 2, 10, 11};
int blueCathode = 7;
int greenCathode = 9;
int redCathode = 8;

int currentLED=0;

// the setup routine runs once when you press reset:
void setup()  {
  // set up LEDs - all off
  for (int i=0; i<LEDS; i++)
  {
    pinMode(anode[i], OUTPUT);
    digitalWrite(anode[i], LOW);
    ledColour[i].r = 0;
    ledColour[i].g = 0;
    ledColour[i].b = 0;
  }
  pinMode(redCathode, OUTPUT);
  pinMode(greenCathode, OUTPUT);
  pinMode(blueCathode, OUTPUT);
  digitalWrite(redCathode, LOW);
  digitalWrite(greenCathode, LOW);
  digitalWrite(blueCathode, LOW);
  
  pwm_set_resolution(8); // 8 bits of PWM resolution
  pwm_setup( 7, PWMFREQ1, 1);  // Pin 7 freq set to "pwm_freq1" on clock B
  pwm_setup( 8, PWMFREQ1, 1);  // Pin 8 freq set to "pwm_freq1" on clock B
  pwm_setup( 9, PWMFREQ1, 1);  // Pin 9 freq set to "pwm_freq1" on clock B
  
  // register for our timer interrupt
  startTimer(TC1, 0, TC3_IRQn, 2000, selectLED); // run at 2KHz
}  

//Convert a given HSV (Hue Saturation Value) to RGB(Red Green Blue) and set
//the led to the color
//  h is hue value, integer between 0 and 360
//  s is saturation value, double between 0 and 1
//  v is value, double between 0 and 1
//http://splinter.com.au/blog/?p29%
void setLedColorHSV(int h, double s, double v, int led) {
  //this is the algorithm to convert from RGB to HSV
  double r=0;  
  double g=0;  
  double b=0;

  double hf=h/60.0;

  int i=(int)floor(h/60.0);
  double f = h/60.0 - i;
  double pv = v * (1 - s);
  double qv = v * (1 - s*f);
  double tv = v * (1 - s * (1 - f));

  switch (i)
  {
  case 0: //rojo dominante
    r = v;
    g = tv;
    b = pv;
    break;
  case 1: //verde
    r = qv;
    g = v;
    b = pv;
    break;
  case 2:  
    r = pv;
    g = v;
    b = tv;
    break;
  case 3: //azul
    r = pv;
    g = qv;
    b = v;
    break;
  case 4:
    r = tv;
    g = pv;
    b = v;
    break;
  case 5: //rojo
    r = v;
    g = pv;
    b = qv;
    break;
  }

  //set each component to a integer value between 0 and 255
  int red=constrain((int)255*r,0,255);
  int green=constrain((int)255*g,0,255);
  int blue=constrain((int)255*b,0,255);

  setColour(red,green,blue,led);
}

/* multiplex LEDs as a background process run from a timer so
 * the foreground process can get on with something else
 *
 * the LEDs themselves use PWM to set the intensity
 * so care is required so it doesn't beat with the PWM frequency
 */  

volatile void selectLED()
{
// deactivate the previous LED
  digitalWrite(anode[currentLED],LOW);
  currentLED++;// advance
  if (currentLED>=LEDS) currentLED=0;// % LEDS;
// set the colours on the cathodes (low=on, so invert them)
  pwm_write_duty(redCathode, 255-ledColour[currentLED].r);
  pwm_write_duty(greenCathode, 255-ledColour[currentLED].g);
  pwm_write_duty(blueCathode, 255-ledColour[currentLED].b);
// activate the current LED
  digitalWrite(anode[currentLED],HIGH);
}


void setColour(int r, int g, int b, int led)
{
  ledColour[led].r = r;
  ledColour[led].g = g;
  ledColour[led].b = b;
}

// the loop routine runs over and over again forever:
void loop()  {  

  for(int hue=0;hue<360;hue++)
  {
    for (int led=0; led<LEDS; led++)
      setLedColorHSV((hue+25*led)%360,1,1,led);
// each LED has a different hue, so we colour sweep
//We are using Saturation and Value constant at 1
    delay(5); //each color will be shown for 5 milliseconds
  }  
}

Re: the Arduino language?
Ivan Shmakov w
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It's C with a small injection of C++ for the libraries.  Some "hidden  
headers" supply types like "byte" and "word" where a mainstream programmer  
would use "uint8_t" and "uint16_t"; and instead of writing a "main"  
function, the programmer writes "setup" and "loop" functions which get  
wrapped into the actual program as

void main (void) {
    setup();
    for (;;)
        loop ();
}

A real beginner would prefer it because it's wrapped into a complete Arduino  
IDE along with peripheral libraries and a bootloader.  This provides  
everything needed to create a simple project with sensors, actuators and  
what not.

A sophisticated user is liable to find that the Arduino packaging has  
expropriated some resources and tied the designer's hands.  That's when it's  
time to either replace the Arduino firmware totally with one's own, or get  
down and design ones own board.

I've put a sketch of my own at <http://www.melwilsonsoftware.ca/wiz5100/
for an illustration of what can be done.  Another Arduino-based project is  
at <http://codeshield.diyode.com/

    Mel.

Re: the Arduino language?
Quoted text here. Click to load it

 >> Indeed, I've just discovered that they use a specific "Arduino"
 >> (e. g., [1]) language for the "sketches."

 >> The question is: how this language is different from C (it surely
 >> looks "C-like" enough), and is there any reason to prefer it over
 >> the latter, even if only for 8-bit AVR programming?

 > It's C with a small injection of C++ for the libraries.

    AIUI, it's more like "full" C++, adorned with certain libraries,
    implemented in both C++ and C.

 > Some "hidden headers"

    Which, however, may be requested explicitly with:

#include <Arduino.h>

 > supply types like "byte" and "word" where a mainstream programmer
 > would use "uint8_t" and "uint16_t"; and instead of writing a "main"
 > function, the programmer writes "setup" and "loop" functions which
 > get wrapped into the actual program as

 > void main (void) {
 >     setup ();
 >     for (;;)
 >         loop ();
 > }

    Curiously, how it makes it any simpler?

 > A real beginner would prefer it because it's wrapped into a complete
 > Arduino IDE along with peripheral libraries and a bootloader.  This
 > provides everything needed to create a simple project with sensors,
 > actuators and what not.

    The Optiboot bootloader seems a sane choice, whether used with
    or without either the Arduino board or Arduino IDE (or both.)

    Also, AIUI, it's possible (even if tricky) to use the Arduino
    libraries without either the board or IDE (or both.)  There's
    also the "Arduino from the command line" package [2], which
    offers a specific Makefile, suitable for turning an Arduino
    sketch into a "stand-alone" source package.

[2] http://mjo.tc/atelier/2009/02/arduino-cli.html

 > A sophisticated user is liable to find that the Arduino packaging has
 > expropriated some resources and tied the designer's hands.  That's
 > when it's time to either replace the Arduino firmware totally with
 > one's own, or get down and design ones own board.

    The question is: how sensible is to use Arduino libraries
    without the board?  (Again, I see no compelling reason to forgo
    the Optiboot bootloader specifically.)

 > I've put a sketch of my own at
 > <http://www.melwilsonsoftware.ca/wiz5100/ for an illustration of
 > what can be done.

    Well, some three years ago, in 2010, one of my students built an
    NTP clock, following the design by Guido Socher [3].  We've then
    tweaked the firmware so it'd catch NTP packets broadcast via
    IPv6 (instead of querying a specific NTP server via IPv4.)

[3] http://www.tuxgraphics.org/electronics/200710/avr-ntp-clock.shtml

 > Another Arduino-based project is at <http://codeshield.diyode.com/

    ACK, thanks for the pointer.

--  
FSF associate member #7257    np. Tree of Love -- Jami Sieber

Arduino
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    [Cross-posting to news:comp.infosystems.www.misc, for the Web
    sites mentioned express a behavior that doesn't seem all that
    sensible.]

 >> I want to start with the micro, can you suggest some things I think
 >> to arduino uno starter kit It's a good idea or not thanks and bye

 > "mbed" [ http://www.mbed.org ]

    Any idea why this site (or, rather, http://mbed.org/ it
    redirects to) reports 403 Forbidden when there's
    User-Agent: Lynx... in the HTTP request header?  Also strange is
    that http://www.wescottdesign.com/ results in 406 Not Acceptable
    in such a case...

    (No big deal, obviously: Lynx can be configured to send whatever
    User-Agent: the user desires.  Or to send none at all.)

 > Would be another option...

 > * No need for dedicated toolchains but standard C (or even C++)
 > programming.

 > * More than one architecture/manufacturer available with the same
 > (eco-)system.

    Aren't Arduino boards "free hardware" (as in freedom)?  Isn't
    anyone thus permitted to produce them, or compatible ones?
    (ISTR, that I've seen some at Olimex.)

--  
FSF associate member #7257

Re: Arduino
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Both sites seem to dislike that Lynx has "libwww" in the User-Agent
string. Seems to be a crude anti-robot measure. I could duplicate the
problem with

    lynx -useragent='libwww'

But not with either of:

    lynx -useragent='libww'
    lynx -useragent='ibwww'

Elijah
------
has seen this sort of thing before

WWW robots, crawling prevention, and Lynx compatibility

    [Setting Followup-To: news:comp.infosystems.www.misc.]

 >> Any idea why this site (or, rather, http://mbed.org/ it redirects
 >> to) reports 403 Forbidden when there's User-Agent: Lynx... in the
 >> HTTP request header?  Also strange is that
 >> http://www.wescottdesign.com/ results in 406 Not Acceptable in such
 >> a case...

 > Both sites seem to dislike that Lynx has "libwww" in the User-Agent
 > string.  Seems to be a crude anti-robot measure.

    ACK, thanks.  I've suspected something like that, but stopped
    short of actually trying to bisect the Lynx' User-Agent: myself.
    One more site to join the league is http://blog.blitz.io /.

    What's really surprising in this case, however, that is such a
    configuration doesn't prevent a /robot proper/ from accessing
    these sites!  Consider, e. g.:

$ wget -O /dev/full -- http://www.wescottdesign.com/ http://mbed.org/
...
Resolving www.wescottdesign.com (www.wescottdesign.com)... 137.118.32.70
Connecting to www.wescottdesign.com (www.wescottdesign.com)|137.118.32.70|:80...
connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response...  
  HTTP/1.1 200 OK
  Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 11:22:39 GMT
  Server: Apache
...
Resolving mbed.org (mbed.org)... 217.140.101.20
Connecting to mbed.org (mbed.org)|217.140.101.20|:80... connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response...  
  HTTP/1.1 200 OK
  Server: nginx/1.1.19
  Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 11:22:40 GMT
...
$  

    OTOH, I've indeed seen many sites which deny access to Wget
    specifically, and not for Lynx.  For instance:

http://arxiv.org/
http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/
http://www.gutenberg.org/

    Another strange "crawling prevention" measure is to check
    Referer:, which is done by, e. g.:

http://www.classicdosgames.com/
http://www.download-central.ws/

    Which is easy to overcome by giving the --header='Referer: ...'
    option to Wget.

    (Although I'm unsure as to was it the intended behavior for
    download-central.ws, or just some kind of misconfiguration.)

 > I could duplicate the problem with

 > lynx -useragent='libwww'

    FWIW, $ wget -U libwww gives the same result.

 > But not with either of:

 > lynx -useragent='libww'
 > lynx -useragent='ibwww'

PS.  I think I may want to create a list of such "doing silly things"
    Web sites...

--  
FSF associate member #7257

Re: Arduino
Ivan Shmakov wrote:

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I have in my hand a Chinese Arduino UNO.  One of the local hackerspaces  
built them into convention badges, and sourced these to keep the cost to  
what they could afford.  At least they told me it's Chinese.  All the board  
artwork has been copied 100%, from what I can see.  I see Active Tech up  
here is offering Arduino compatibles from OSEPP and Solarbotics.

    Mel.


Re: start whit micro
On Monday, March 18, 2013 8:15:11 AM UTC-4, Silvanononvalevoleciccioli wrot
e:
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Arduino is a good starting point to experiment with microcontrollers and ge
t something working fast. So if this is your goal, I would highly recommend
 it.

However, if your goal is to really learn about programming microcontrollers
 and how they really work inside, I think that you need a proper debugger t
o see the disassebled code, to be able to examine the CPU registers, to see
 the content of memory, the stack, and various special registers. Arduino d
oes NOT provide this capability, because Arduino does not give you the buil
t-in J-Tag debugger.  

So, here is my list of inexpensive self-contained boards with built-in J-Ta
g debugger. All of them are based on ARM Cortex-M, which is the most popula
r CPU architecture in microcontrollers today and for the foreseeable future
. Please note that some of them are much cheaper than Arduino UNO:

1. Stellaris Launchpad from TI (http://www.ti.com/ww/en/launchpad/stellaris
_head.html) $12.99, Cortex-M4F
2. LPCXpresso boards from NXP (http://ics.nxp.com/lpcxpresso /), around $30,
 Cortex-M0, Cortrex-M3
3. STM32 discovery from ST (http://www.st.com/internet/evalboard/product/25
2419.jsp) $14.99, Cortex-M4F
4. Freedom FRDM-KL25Z from Freescale (freescale.com/FRDM-KL25Z), Cortex-M0+

From these boards, my favorite is the Stellaris Launchpad with the latest C
ortex-M4F CPU. In fact, I'm using this board in my YouTube video course "Em
bedded Systems Programming Course" available at


http://www.youtube.com/watc

h?v=3V9eqvkMzHA&list=PLPW8O6W-1chwyTzI3BHwBLbGQoPFxPAPM  

Miro Samek
state-machine.com

Re: start whit micro
On Tue, 19 Mar 2013 16:02:52 -0700 (PDT), info@quantum-leaps.com
wrote:

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something working fast. So if this is your goal, I would highly recommend it.
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how they really work inside, I think that you need a proper debugger to see the
disassebled code, to be able to examine the CPU registers, to see the content of
memory, the stack, and various special registers. Arduino does NOT provide this
capability, because Arduino does not give you the built-in J-Tag debugger.  
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debugger. All of them are based on ARM Cortex-M, which is the most popular CPU
architecture in microcontrollers today and for the foreseeable future. Please
note that some of them are much cheaper than Arduino UNO:

The Cortex-M processors are my own go-to choice nowadays.
Nevertheless, I would not recommend them as a typical user's first
"bare" microcontroller. Better to go with something like an AVR
ATmega328 in DIP form-factor. Cheap, understandable, bread-boardable.
There is also a choice of free (libre) and free (for non-commercial
use) compilers, e.g., https://www.imagecraft.com/

Re: start whit micro
On 20.3.13 6:02 , Rich Webb wrote:
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something working fast. So if this is your goal, I would highly recommend it.
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and how they really work inside, I think that you need a proper debugger to see
the disassebled code, to be able to examine the CPU registers, to see the
content of memory, the stack, and various special registers. Arduino does NOT
provide this capability, because Arduino does not give you the built-in J-Tag
debugger.
Quoted text here. Click to load it
debugger. All of them are based on ARM Cortex-M, which is the most popular CPU
architecture in microcontrollers today and for the foreseeable future. Please
note that some of them are much cheaper than Arduino UNO:
Quoted text here. Click to load it


For moving later up to ARMs (including Cortexes), the avr-gcc might
be a good chioce for a toolkit. AVRdude functions well for programming.

IIRC, there are instructions how to integrate Eclipse and AVR GCC +
tools, for the IDE people.

--  

Tauno Voipio


Re: start whit micro
On Wed, 20 Mar 2013 18:40:59 +0200, Tauno Voipio

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Yes. I'd also thought about recommending WinAVR but from a quick check
of the d/l page it looks like WinAVR stalled about three years ago.

Doesn't Atmel's AVR Studio include the gcc toolchain, now? I'll admit
that I haven't been keeping up with it -- still running Studio 4 for
those rare occasions when I need it.

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