"RJ45" crimp connector flavors

Hi,

I've asked this in several places (possibly even here, previously) and still haven't received a good answer...

RJ45 (8P8C) connectors come in a variety of styles, chiefly cable type (flat vs round) and conductor type (solid vs stranded).

The former distinction is relatively easy to recognize. But, the latter doesn't seem to be consistently recognizable! (yes, I've seen the Wikipedia page).

Almost all of the connectors that I have *appear* (see above) to be for stranded wire -- despite coming out of bags marked "for solid wire"!

OK, it's possible that the bags got mismarked at the factory (though I have examples of such from different vendors!). But, I wonder if it isn't just a "manufacturing economy"? I.e., if one type (e.g., stranded) worked equally well for the *other* type (e.g., solid), then I could see manufacturers making a single product (perhaps a *hybrid*) and packaging it as *both*!

At least, that's the only reasonable explanation I can find for these observations...

Can anyone shed any light on this? Or, *definitive* criteria that I can use to examine the IDC contacts of each connector for some subtle clues?? (I imagine I can dissolve the plastic body if necessary to ensure full access to an unmolested "pin")

Thx,

--don

Reply to
Don Y
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On Mon, 09 Dec 2013 03:52:38 -0700, Don Y Gave us:

Crimp connector work on wire that has NOT been stripped.

Most work on BOTH wire types, because the wire is encapsulated in its insulation. So there is no fray worries.

Hardly anyone uses solid wire any more for this application. Is there even any made for cat 6? Pretty sure there are no differences in the crimp connectors, because they have to able to be crimped by the same tools all over the world.

They all align and feed 8 round insulated conductors up through channeled guides, into the area where the crimp occurs.

You may be worrying a bit much bet a sample of each before you buy, if you are worried, and perform a pull test with each.

Reply to
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno

The original design was indeed for solid wire, which is simply forced down into a acute Vee slot in the back of the pin. I suspect (but don't know) that the connectors marked for stranded have a smaller Vee, so the strands will properly jam.

The only way to really know is to find the standard for the RJ series of connectors. I don't have such a standard, but I would guess that it comes from Bellcore, because the RJ connectors were invented by Bell Labs. Anyway, I'd ask around - someone will know.

Joe Gwinn

Reply to
Joe Gwinn

The contacts can be pulled out of the connector to be examined. If you look at the teeth on one type there are three barbs slightly offset from the centre line, on the other there are only two barbs that are in line. I belive one type can be used on both soild and stranded cables the other only on stranded. As far as I am aware these are the only variations between the two.

YMMV.

Regards: Baron.

Reply to
Baron

Really? Man, you've got *much* better eyes than *I*! I can't even see what to grab *onto*! :<

OK, I'll believe you and drag one under the stereoscope and see if I can figure out how to coax it out of the plastic (I know it can be pushed *into* the plastic body further than it's "rest" position -- by the crimping action)

So, presumably, the ones I *appear* to have (I am assuming that, on closer inspection, they will prove to be *truly* identical and not hiding some detail that is not apparent to the unaided eye) would be the ones that work with both types?

OK. I will have to check. Looking at them "side on" doesn't shed much insight on what they are really like. (e.g., hard to tell if there are two -- or more -- barbs and whether they are inline or staggered.)

[Perhaps I can find a detailed mechanical drawing at somebody's manufacturer web site...]

Thx!

--don

Reply to
Don Y

The picture and description are accurate. The reason for two different types of "stranded or solid" wire contacts is probably a patent issue. I use the "trident" like contact style on most everything I use. I've found the stranded-only variety to be unreliable in that it will sometimes cut the stranded wires with a mis-adjusted crimping tool.

I'll post some photos with my USB microscope and possibly my binocular microscope: I have no problem seeing the different types of contacts without much more than my reading glasses. Therefore, I assume that something with more magnification will be better. Last resort is to sacrifice a connector to the electronics gods and extract the contact.

Well, you might be correct due to your microscope's insufficient depth of field. We'll see how mine does.

Wrong. At the front (the end that you shove into the receptacle) you should be able to see the ends of the copper wires. This checks for screwups such as, cutting the wires at an angle, partially missing the contact area, and lousy retention.

We shall soon see (probably tomorrow). I need to do billing tonite.

A pair of big diagonal cutters should be adequate at destroying the plastic. What's left are the contacts. If you require elegance, take an uncrimped RJ45 plug, put a small jewelers screwdriver on the front end on the contact, and beat on it with a hammer. The contact should pop right out. Again, uncrimped connector, not one that has a cable attached.

You have a cable certifier? I borrow a Fluke DSP-2000 from the local wiring contractor when I need reports. I can't justify the $3,000 cost of a new certifier.

I'll spare you my rant on what I think of those. They make it easy for inexperience installers to crimp connectors, but do nothing for someone that has the proper tools and some experience.

Verification is easy. Either get a cheap continuity tester such as: or do it visually. Hint #1: Every other wire has white as the base color. Hint #2: Make sure the high skool slackers that you hire know the difference between 568a and 568b color coding. I had to rework an install where they didn't.

Yep. There's no reason to buy solid-only or stranded-only connectors.

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Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
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Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

Then the Wikipedia description is inaccurate (or, at best, misleading)

As I said, I can clearly see two prongs with my unaided eyes. But, I can't tell if there is a *third* prong. Nor if the two prongs are coplanar. I can see a difference in depth but can't attest that this isn't attributed to my position of the connector body itself.

And, given that there are two bags with different part numbers (solid vs stranded), one would *think* there would be a noticeable difference between the connectors ("Which bag did these fall out of?")

As I said, I can see the two teeth to be at different depths from the objective. But, is that because the connector body is skewed? The contacts not truly parallel to the edge of the body? etc. There's very little difference between the tips of the two teeth if there *is* any!

No, we're talking about a *bare* connector. No wires inside (how would you see around the wire if it was present?). When building a cable, I can see/verify the ends of the wire are fully inserted with my unaided eyes. That's how I tell if I may have been "off" when trimming the conductors to the same "penetration".

I'm going to try to pry it out with a small stainless steel pin. There's a bit of a gap on each side of the "blade" so if I can get it to wiggle, it will probably fall out (and get lost in the carpet pile)

No, I just use a Navitek. IME, cable failures are pretty apparent while you're making them:

- soft crimp (you know before the crimp is done that it "missed")

- misplaced white (one of the whites shifted as you were inserting)

The first you just learn from instinct -- it just *feels* wrong! No need to check, it's bad. Cut off the connector and try again.

The second turns up in a cable test.

Seeing white is easy. Seeing whether it has a green or blue tracer is the tricky part!

I don't hire folks for that sort of thing. I don't *do* that sort of thing, either! I only deal with short cables that I need to be "the right length" and can't rely on store-bought.

There's no reason to *buy* connectors when you've got *boxes* of them already! :>

I'll pull one out of each "type". Use unopened bags just to remove all doubt. If the contacts appear the same, then it will be as I initially speculated:

"...I could see manufacturers making a single product (perhaps a *hybrid*) and packaging it as *both*!"

Reply to
Don Y

Photos of two types of connectors taken with my cheap, junk, eBay USB microscope. The photo of the microscope has built in 8 LED ring illuminator turned off to eliminate glare: I could drag out the microscope if you want a better photo if you want.

See my photos. It should be obvious.

You have to remove the contact from the connector to see that. However, it's a fair assumption that it is staggered slightly to straddle the connector.

I've had the displeasure of dealing with a mixed bag of RF45 connectors. The local wiring contractor sold them to me because he didn't want to spend a day sorting out about 200 connectors. I got the bag for about $20 and hired the neighbors kids to do the sorting. Amazingly, no mistakes.

Ummm... that's not right. The "teeth" should be the same length.

No. I have managed to skew the contacts with a bad crimper or by not shoving the connector all the way into the crimper, but with an uncrimped connector, the contacts should not be skewed.

The two "teeth" should be bevel cut in opposing directions. It's difficult to see without a magnifier.

That's the same way I do it. However, it's a bit difficult to do WHILE crimping the connector. So, I look at the ends of the wires, to see if they're visible through the plastic. A blank space indicates a wire that wasn't pushed all the way into the connector.

Over the years, I've trained a fair number of competitors. However, you're right. At 65.9 years, I'm getting too old for this kind of work. I just wired the phone and ethernet in a neighboring office. 12 phones lines and 10 ethernet ports. I'll spare you the photos as I'm not very proud of this job. It took about twice as long as expected because I stupidly decided to use the existing CAT5 in the wall. I would have hired some kids to help, but the budget didn't allow it.

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Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
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Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

On Mon, 09 Dec 2013 13:40:37 -0700, Don Y Gave us:

Crimp it onto NO wires, and look from the side at the bare crimp ridges. They should then be exposed better in the plastic.

Reply to
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno

On Mon, 09 Dec 2013 13:40:37 -0700, Don Y Gave us:

An exacto or a dremel even. Hell, crush it in a vise. It should be no problem to 'burn one' while trying to get info about them.

No, I am not referring to getting high while working.

Reply to
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno

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connectors made for solid will have teeth tips offset from the centreline

It should be reasonably easy to pull the contact out of an uncrimped plug, crimped plugs need a little more effort but the contact can usually be lifted using a tool with a sharp point.

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Reply to
Jasen Betts

I can see *that* much detail with my unaided eye! What I can't

*reliably* discern is whether the two prongs exist in the same plane, staggered planes or at entirely different angles to each other (e.g., "twisted").

Recall, I'm comparing two connectors that *claimed* to be different (prior to this thread) and trying to understand what that difference could be (ans: none!). Since they both appear the same (two prongs) when viewed from this "side view", the difference "*must*" have something to do with the spacing of the prongs, right?

(Reiterating: they were *supposed* to be different...)

I was thinking the third prong (middle) would be in a different plane than the other "end" two. Farther "into" the screen.

Unless, for stranded wire, they were trying to pick up different places in the "twist".

(Reiterating: they were *supposed* to be different...)

In my case, just a large box full of little bags (probably 100 pieces in a bag?). The "sorting" involved reading which bags said "round" vs "flat", or "solid" vs. "stranded". This latter distinction now appears to have been artificial.

No, depth when viewed from the side -- as in your photos. Put the connector on its side. Then, gauge the distance "into the screen" of each of the tips.

Now, decide if the difference is because the metal is actually bent to ensure the tips are in slightly different planes (one wire thickness); or because the contact isn't actually perfectly parallel to the outer surface of the connector as it sits on the microscope's stage; or because there is a taper/imperfection in the shape of the connector shell as it sits on the stage.

If, instead, I could have rotated the connector into its normal orientation (pins down, locking tab up), AND observed the teeth from above, it would be easier to use the length of the contact as a straightedge and determine if the teeth were collinear or staggered. But, doing so means trying to peer

*through* the locking tab.

I can see it. I just can't claim that it is an intentional feature or a "manufacturing/viewing tolerance"

Oh. I don't have a problem seeing the wire placement while the connector is in the crimper. Usually, screwups are obvious before I even get the connector shell into the crimper (wires into shell, inspect, connector into crimper, verify, crimp)

In this case, I'm stringing new cables under my worktables. I need 16 *different* lengths from 5 to ~30 ft (to cut down on excess "service loops" that add to the clutter).

I'll have to do a similar task in the "computer lab" I've been setting up, tomorrow. My back will not be happy crawling around on the floor tacking cables *up* to the underside of the tables!

Reply to
Don Y

Crimp stranded wire in. If the prongs go through the center of the wire, it's stranded only.

Crimp solid wire in. If it's very hard to crimp or the wire snaps off, it's stranded only.

The bigger problem I've seen is that you never know what gauge of wire the no-name jacks are for.

Reply to
Kevin McMurtrie

many stranded plugs don't work well on solid wire, gining intermittent connections.

Some use double ended inserts and fit plugs to the fixed wire. (I use punchdown blocks for the fixed wiring)

There is lots of solid cat6 made, I would not be surprised if most of it is solid.

The suplier we at work (and much of NZ it seems) buy it off has 1662 "rolls" of solid and 277 of stranded. or 502km solid and 78km stranded rolls are mostly 305m but some 500m and some as short as 50m

(I pasted their website into a spreadsheet)

they also stock cat6 patch cables, 99761 pieces or 241km. (all stranded)

If their stock levels are representative there is (by length) twice as much solid made as there is stranded.

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Reply to
Jasen Betts

That's different. If you look at the cable end of the RJ45 connector, you'll find two different styles of entry. One is a round affair designed to fit and grip round cable. The other is a a slot like affair, that is designed to fit and grip flat wire, such as ribbon cable and under carpet cable. The wedge that grips the cable is also quite different.

More later. I'm late for a free lunch.

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Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
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Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

Not an issue -- I can tell round from flat. :> Above, I was referring to the fact that there doesn't appear to be a real distinction FOR THESE PARTICULAR "solid" AND "stranded" connectors. They apparently use a "pin" that is equally applicable (so, the part numbers on the bags are artificial)

And *I* should probably eat *something*, today! :-/

Reply to
Don Y

Connectors that are eXplicitly made for solid wire have a slotted fork; the wire goes into the slot which has knife-like edges to displace some of the copper and make a cold weld connection,which is very reliable. Use of stranded wire is rather counter-productive,to say the least. The strands get pushed around and the connection not as robust, and can be poor. The IDC scheme does seem to work, tho . . refer to common use in flat computer cables as one example.

Reply to
Robert Baer

You know what they say about free lunches. I'm attending one tomorrow that will cost enough in lost wages for me to take my whole family out for dinner.

Reply to
Ralph Barone

It's also possible that more stranded is *sold* and the (relatively) "large inventory" of solid is just "old stock" that has been sitting around (no demand). You'd have to watch the inventory over time to get a better feel.

Dunno.

Reply to
Don Y

I've chatted with my wire vendor a bit about ethernet cabling. They are an industrial distributer of many products, but are huge in the cabling industry.

Stranded ethernet cabling is sold mostly only to places that make patch cables in an industrial scale. He stocks some Cat5e stranded, (but not Cat6 or Cat6a) for those weird folks, such as myself, who do a lot of datacenter cabling to length. But I'm probably his only account that reguarly buys it.

OOTH, all the electricians/datacomm guys would be buying solid cable to do horizontal and riser runs all over buildings and such. They regularly go through tons of it, and I wouldn't count stock levels as a picture of what is bought & sold, you would have to look at volume. Which for most distributers is going to be solid all the way through.

Nobody reguarly makes patch cables out of solid ethernet cable, but most electricians will make some on the fly in a pinch if the end-customer needs something done. I've replaced many eleectrician provided solid patch cables at customer sites, that have failed.

I don't think solid patch cables last more than a year or two of typical stress/movement, and don't count them reliable enough to use in my work. Even with the "correct" solid ends, they tend to fail at a very high rate over time.

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Doug McIntyre 
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Reply to
Doug McIntyre

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