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Re: Recommendation for Code/Text Editor?
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Yep, that's true.  I've been using vi ever since it first appeared in
whatever it was (BSD v7 or something, am I mixing Unix distros?) in
the very early eighties.  Actually, I'm not sure that that was
when it first appeared, but it's when we first had terminals
that would support it with screen addressing.  I have used it (as ex)
on a hardcopy terminal, though, where it would move the carriage back and
forth, and rewrite the line on a new line when it changed too much
to be rewritten on the current line.  Fantastic!

--
Nobby

Re: Recommendation for Code/Text Editor?
snipped-for-privacy@barrow.com (Floyd L. Davidson) writes:
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[snip]

I have a nodding acquaintance with vi and extensive experience
with a very simplified version of emacs.  I classify vi in the
same category as TECO:  it'll do everything and anything but
its user interface sucks green toads.

I am looking for (and found) a very simple editor which is
capable of opening a text file, let me change a few chars,
and save the result.  No fuss, no fury, no extensive
capabilities needed nor desired.

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Weather getting any warmer up there yet?

Re: Recommendation for Code/Text Editor?
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I was looking for a texteditor with extensive capabilities,
but still easy to use and with no nosense.
For example,
- who invented the stupid question (when you close your program or shut
down your computer)
   "do you want to save the changes ?"
- why doesn't a document open at the position where I closed it ?
- why doesn't the computer open my documents, that where open when I
shutdown the computer ?

With paper and pen I had/have all these features ;-)

Stef Mientki

Re: Recommendation for Code/Text Editor?
$42a9e5f3$83aef479$ snipped-for-privacy@news2.tudelft.nl:

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Well, actually, sometimes I don't want to save the changes...

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The editor I use does do this.

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The editor I use does remember what documents I had open, and when I
launch it, it opens those same documents back up.

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That's nice, I have all these features without pen and paper.

--
Richard

Re: Recommendation for Code/Text Editor?
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then you type too much and/or think too little ;-)
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great !
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almost great !
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No, you still have to answer the first question mentioned
and the document(s) is(are) not left open on your desk.

Stef
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Re: Recommendation for Code/Text Editor?

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forgot to ask, what editor do you use ?

Stef

Re: Recommendation for Code/Text Editor?
$83aef479$ snipped-for-privacy@news2.tudelft.nl:

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Codewright, no longer supported, but still quite happy with it.

--
Richard

Re: Recommendation for Code/Text Editor?
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Some fairly bright programmer who also understood human nature.
Thank goodness, too!

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You don't know how to to that?  You must have a horrible editor,
or else you aren't familiar with it.

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You shut your computer off?  Why?

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You can't reformat what you wrote on the paper.  You can't run
a spell checker  on it.  You can't compile it.  You can't
run any kind of text analyzer on it.  And you can't "pretty print"
it either.

Or, you can't easily do any of those things with the press of a
few keys.

--
Floyd L. Davidson           <http://web.newsguy.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)                         snipped-for-privacy@barrow.com

Re: Recommendation for Code/Text Editor?



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My favorite is TextPad (http://www.textpad.com ). It has a great user
interface. Other than being a Windows application is has only one
deficiency - keystroke macros can be created but not edited. Other than
that, I think it is a near perfect text general purpose text editor.

Britt


Re: Recommendation for Code/Text Editor?
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Seconded.

--
"If you want to post a followup via groups.google.com, don't use
 the broken "Reply" link at the bottom of the article.  Click on
We've slightly trimmed the long signature. Click to see the full one.
Scintilla ??, was Re: Recommendation for Code/Text Editor?
I changed the subject, in the hope to get some responses of younger
users. (btw I'm even older then most of who responded in this thread ;-)

This thread is only talking about Vi en Emacs,
and even with my long experience, I've never heard of either of them.

Half a year ago, I did some websearch on text/code editors,
and found Scintilla as the best.
I've to admit that I didn't really try Scintilla, nor any of the other
ones. My judgement was just based on reading the first webpage of each
of the editors and my conclusion was that none of the texteditors
(except Scintilla) did have any major advantage over my current editor
(SynEdit). Even the advantages of Scintilla were too small to switch to
another editor.

Now I'm interested: did anyone make a comparison between Vi or Emacs and
Scintilla ??

thanks,
Stef Mientki

Re: Scintilla ??
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Both statements are improbable :-)  The latter because Emacs and Vi
have been around for at least 25 years in some form or another.
What I have never heard of is Scintilla.

--
"If you want to post a followup via groups.google.com, don't use
 the broken "Reply" link at the bottom of the article.  Click on
We've slightly trimmed the long signature. Click to see the full one.
Re: Scintilla ??
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Well, I've heard of, and worked with all three. Scintilla (in the form
of wScite) is still on my machine; the others have been removed.

Bill

Re: Scintilla ??

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Emacs came out around 1977, unified from a collection of editing
libraries dating back considerably further.  (But back in the 1970s
it was only available on 4 individual computers.)   There have been
commercial versions of Emacs (entirely different implementations)
as long as there have been microprocessors.

Re: Scintilla ??, was Re: Recommendation for Code/Text Editor?

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Then IMHO what ever you have accumulated there may well be long, but
it doesn't really qualify as "experience".  Doing any kind of research
on available editors and not coming across at least some rendition of
both vi and Emacs is, roughly said, impossible.

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The very idea that "the" webpage of a given editor must even exist is
wrong.  Some have none, others have more than you can visit in a day.

And that's before you start worrying about the relative percentage of
hard fact vs. marketing drivel to be found on the main pages of
commercially distributed editors.  Might as well judge hamburgers by
the appearance of their makers' TV commercials.

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If Scintilla's makers didn't, why should anyone else bother?

--
Hans-Bernhard Broeker ( snipped-for-privacy@physik.rwth-aachen.de)
Even if all the snow were burnt, ashes would remain.

Re: Recommendation for Code/Text Editor?
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Well, *I* won't disagree with that, but... for every one of us
who thinks the vi interface sucks, there are at least an equal
number of those who think the emacs interface sucks.  I don't
know exactly what the differences are in the people who chose
one or the other (but I do know that I can't live with the modes
in vi).

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Sometimes that is needed, for example on an embedded system.
But on my desktop or on my laptop, I run a full blown XEmacs
*server*.  Hence, when I want to have a simple editor, gnuclient
is a simple editor with no fuss, no fury and it pops up in
milliseconds.  Of course, I often as not want a really complex
editor, and it is that too.   As a result, I just need but one
editor.

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Too warm.  It's 40F outside.  It will be above freezing most of
the time until late September, and I'll just sort of tolerate
it until then.  October through April are good times, because
it *never* rains!  Of course May through August aren't bad, because
it rarely ever rains.  September is miserable.

--
Floyd L. Davidson           <http://web.newsguy.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)                         snipped-for-privacy@barrow.com

Re: Recommendation for Code/Text Editor?



Floyd L. Davidson wrote:

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http://www.techiepundit.com/archives/000031.html

http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/web/library/wa-cranky50.html



Re: Recommendation for Code/Text Editor?
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The two cited references below do *not* address my comment
quoted above.  They address a related issue, which is mildly
interesting, but different.  (And a trivial waste of time...)

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Not a well studied essay, but merely a knee jerk reaction.

His premises are that 1) he can't find many people who have
actually used several editors and compared features, and 2) that
the preferences observed are just "the deep irrational devotion
that many programmers have for their editors".  His belief is
that the first editor people become skilled at, they bond to.

Certainly there is some validity to his observations, but the
analysis and conclusions are poppy cock.

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This is Peter Seebach's more general (and much better thought
out) essay on the syndrome cited above.  Seebach does use
editors as one of several examples.  Regardless, it doesn't
discuss the same subject as my comment above.

Specifically, the first cite supposes that because people don't
actually *know* many editors and compare feature sets, that they
have made an irrational choice based on some other arbitrary
factor.  But there is *no* *need* to compare editor feature sets
and the highly irrational part is expecting users to waste the
enormous amount of time it would take to make such comparisons.

Both vi and emacs can do anything: end of feature comparisons!

The trick is learning one of them well enough to know how to
make the best use of it.  What is needed is a *methods*
comparison and studies matching those to human characteristics
to determine how well a given user can learn and use each
editor.  That does *not* seem to be easy or well understood.

My statement was that I'm not sure just which of the many
*methods* differences between vi and emacs are the ones that
various people key on when they make a selection, or which human
characteristics could be used to predict which editor a person
would probably be most comfortable with.

In my case it is very clear that I do not get along with vi's
modes, and find emacs' key bindings more logical.  Some people
have exactly the opposite reaction, while others just don't see
those as significant, and have other criteria.

Wouldn't it be interesting to have an Editor Adaptability Test,
where you spend an hour or two answering multiple choice
questions and doing a few simple tasks, and at the end you get a
pair of percentile ratings that indicate your predicted ability
to adapt to each of vi and emacs!

--
Floyd L. Davidson           <http://web.newsguy.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)                         snipped-for-privacy@barrow.com

Re: Recommendation for Code/Text Editor?

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That would be great idea !
Preferable the tasks should be done with your own kind of documents.
But who is interested in creating such a poll ?

Stef Mientki


Re: Recommendation for Code/Text Editor?

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Quite true. And another point not often considered is that when the user
is more than satisfied with his present editor, why invest that time?

My own take on emacs is that a) I have no wish for an editor to try to
be anything but an editor (so much of what is in that venerable package
is a waste for me), and b) I find the default key bindings entirely
unacceptable, as they leave me with cramps in my hands, and c) rewriting
the definition of key bindings while a neophyte is a fool's errand.
Also, I want an editor to be transparent to my wishes, which means
either it must work like what I am used to or it must have a very short
learning curve. In the end, I have no compelling reason to use emacs, so
I do not.

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I find emacs' key bindings entirely logical, and entirely uncomfortable. ;)

To each his own, I say!

Bill

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