Re: PROBLEM! misc.busines...

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Tony Williams wrote:
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No it isn't.  You are, quite simply, wrong.  What is happening
to s.e.d at the moment is that Genome, who I have killfiled,
decided to start off-topic crossposting complaints about
misc.business.product-dev between sci.electronics.design and
comp.arch.embedded.  Then you decided to crosspost your off-topic
reply to the same two unmoderated newsgroups.  Please don't blame
crossposts between unmoderated newsgroups on the moderator of a
third, moderated newsgroup.

If you would like to make a case against crossposting to moderated
and unmoderated newsgroups, I invite you to do so by posting it to
misc.business.product-dev with a Subject line of "[META] Moderation
Policy."  Or, if you wish, you can find some other newsgroup where
such discussions are appropriate.  comp.arch.embedded is NOT the right
place to discuss the moderation policy of misc.business.product-dev.

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I would welcome seeing you try to make your case.  So far you are just
making assertions without giving any reasons.
  




Re: PROBLEM! misc.busines...



Rheilly Phoull wrote:

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This thread is an attempt to start a crossposted flamewar between
sci.electronics.design and comp.arch.embedded.  If you reply to
those same two newsgroups you are helping the shit-stirrer.



Re: PROBLEM! misc.busines...



Spehro Pefhany wrote:

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There is no reason why a poster should never crosspost to
a moderated newsgroup.  Some newsgroup moderators allow
crossposts, some don't, and there is nothing wrong with
either policy.

Crossposting complaints about the moderation policy of misc.
business.product-dev to comp.arch.embedded and sci.electronics.
design, on the other hand, *is* a violation of netiquette.

  


Re: PROBLEM! misc.busines...
On Tue, 05 Jul 2005 13:03:30 +0000, the renowned Guy Macon

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Yes indeed there is. Crossposting to a moderated newsgroup exposes not
only the replies (for those who don't carefully check the newsgroups
line) but even the ORIGINAL post to the whims of the moderator. As a
result, for example, it may never reach any of the unmoderated
newsgroups.

Totally unacceptable, IMHO.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..."                          "The Journey is the reward"
snipped-for-privacy@interlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
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Re: PROBLEM! misc.busines...



Spehro Pefhany wrote:

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If that's totally unacceptable to you, feel free to avoid posting or
crossposting to moderated newsgroups.

I don't know if you noticed, but the first time someone from sci.
electronics.design made a polite request that I not allow crossposts
there, I stopped approving any crossposts to sci.electronics.design.  
I did this not because I had to or because anyone made a good argument,
but simply because it seemed like the polite thing to do.  It would
be nice if I got an occasional scrap of politeness thrown back to me,
but that's the decision of whoever is doing the posting to make.

While on the subject of being polite, shall we discuss whether
crossposting your off-topic opinions about moderation policies to
comp.arch.embedded and sci.electronics.design is the polite thing
to do?

Your argument contains a fatal flaw.  It assumes that, just because
some posters are foolish enough to use a newsreader that posts to
whatever newsgroups the post they reply to was posted to *and* are
foolish enough to let the decision the newsreader made stand without
reviewing it, they should be allowed to dictate where other posters
can and cannot post just to shield them from the consequences of
their foolish behavior.

This is Usenet.  You don't get to tell me what to do, and I don't
get to tell you what to do.  You are 100% responsible for anything
you post - headers and body.  You can choose to quote from someone
else's post and you can choose to post to where someone else posted,
but the choice is yours and so is the responsibility.

As for your "for those who don't carefully check" concept, this was
decided a long time ago in another context.  There was a proposal
floated that all moderated newsgroups have the word "moderated" in
the newsgroup name, much like the way binary newsgroups are labeled.
The argument was that those who don't carefully check might end up
posting and having their posts not approved or posted with an
added moderator's comment on the bottom.  The consensus among news
administrators was that it is the poster's responsibility to pay
attention, and that it is not Usenet's responsibility to shield him
from the consequences of not paying attention.  This basic concept
was built into the fabric of Usenet when it was decided that any
poster can set followups - another situation where those who don't
carefully check might be surprised at the results they get.

 "This is not a list. This is not a board. This is not
 some web page forum with rules and moderators. This is
 USENET. The wild west of online communication. Where
 trolls and flames roam rampant. Where you keep your
 asbestos underpants handy if you lack wit (or have an
 ego that greatly exceeds your actual abilities).
 If you don't like it, feel free to run back to the
 comfortable safety of moderated web forums and mailing
 lists where everyone lives in enforced peace and harmony
 in the land of Nod."
                                              -Cichlidiot


Re: PROBLEM! misc.busines...
On Tue, 05 Jul 2005 09:20:44 -0400, Spehro Pefhany

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Just don't play in Gee's arena.  Leave him alone to wither and die.

With Agent it is trivial to kill cross-posts to groups you don't want
to see the response... just delete Gee's group from the Newsgroup
header.

                                        ...Jim Thompson
--
|  James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
|  Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
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Re: PROBLEM! misc.busines...

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Because gee continues to try to suck the good people here into his trap.

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It's easy in PAN and Gravity too, if I notice.  I think he should be shot
out of SED too as long as he plays his silly NNTP games.

--
  Keith

Re: PROBLEM! misc.busines...

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Although you won't see my answer because you have killfiled me I must point
out that it was YOU.... who

1) Crossposted your original question to misc.business.product-dev and
comp.arch.embedded

2) Crossposted your original question to misc.business.product-dev and
sci.math

Therefore it was YOU as the moderator of misc.business.product-dev who
started with this crossposting. You have been touting your moderated
newsgroup in unmoderated ones trying to, dare I say Troll People into it. It
is probably the reason why you crosspost in the first place.

I don't know what the policy of the moderator for sci.math is but your ill
conceived restrictions on crossposting limits your behaviour.

You can

1) Crosspost your question to relevent newsgroups... comp.arch.embedded and
sci.maths. Which unfortunately means you are forced to leave yours out so
no-ones answers appear in your precious newsgroup.

2) You can keep your question in your precious newsgroup in which case no
one will see it.

3) You can do what you did.

When I first saw that, not realising that sci.math was moderated and might
operate a similar policy to you (stupid though it is) I thought it was a bit
pretentious. I still do and that was my original complaint. By choosing to
do it the way you did you denied others access to information that may have
been useful to them

Realise that I am not complaining about misc.business.product-dev but about
your behaviour as moderator. As such you should be excercising a much higher
level of 'usenet etiquette'. There are a number of times when you have
either started threads from 'your' newsgroup and tried to plead with people
to continue responding there. You have also tried to hi-jack threads from
unmoderated newsgroups into yours.

This is crossposted to SED because that's where I generally live and have
met you. I don't like you or your attitude, that's my opinion. I might
behave like an idiot most of the time but I don't feel any need to prove
anything.

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/sci.electronics.design/msg/7c3633db8905dec6?dmode=source

Having dropped my pants I shall leave this arena.

DNA



Re: PROBLEM! misc.busines...

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No, I'm lying... I'll sit and see.

Not interested? PLONK me or the thread.

DNA



Re: PROBLEM! misc.busines...
On Tue, 05 Jul 2005 12:02:48 +0000, Guy Macon

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I would have appreciated, if you had included .moderated in your
newsgroup name.

I think that if the discussion is conducted only in a moderated
newsgroup, the moderation delays are quite OK.

However, if I post a message to a moderated and an unmoderated
newsgroup, I really do not think that it is acceptable that my
response to the unmoderated newsgroup is delayed by the moderation
delay. In such cases, I would rather only post to the unmoderated
newsgroup or posted two separate entries, one to the unmoderated and
one to the moderated newsgroup. Unfortunately, in the latter case,
many readers will se two entries with the same contents.

Paul
  

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